“Strange Fire”? Not in Global Ministry

Posted by Библията Тв in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

“Strange Fire”? Not in Global Ministry

Did this with Hanny Setiawan Dennis Balcombeand @Marius Lombaard back in the day. Wish I knew Link Hudson Peter A Vandever and Joseph Castillo to include them at that them but it’s never too late for another round

Link Hudson [12/02/2015 1:57 PM]
John Kissinger I would have been honored. I haven’t read the book yet. I’ve seen his sermons from the conference.

What I’d say about ‘Strange Fire’ is that if having church differently from what the Bible teaches is analagous to offering strange fire in the tabernacle, then who is really offering strange fire? I Corinthians 14 is the only long chapter in the New Testament that tells us what to do in church. It allows for regular members of the congregation to sing and speak and use their gifts to edify others. The rule is that all things be done unto edifying.

Speakers in tongues are specifically allowed to speak if there is an interpreter. Prophets are specifically allowed to speak, “Let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. The passage also says ‘For ye may all prophesy one by one….’ Paul presents all prophesying as a positive thing in the passage and encourages believers to prophesy.

If certain Reformed preachers want to redefine prophesying to refer to pulpit preaching of the word of God, as John MacArthur has deon in the past, then do these preachers actually obey their own interpretation and have two or three preachers or sermons per meeting? Are all allowed to preach one by one? I don’t accept the popular formed redefinition of ‘prophesy’ away from the Biblical understanding, but it seems that those who use this definition typically do not apply scripture within their own framework of interpretation when it comes to this passage.

If the ‘regulative principle’ is the right approach to church meetings, then we should follow what the Bible actually teaches directly about what to do in our gatherings. We should certainly allow tongues and interpretation, prophesying, and ‘regular believers’ to teach and edify the congregation. I can’t find the one-sermon, hymn sandwich meeting in scripture.

As far as my international experience with Peter Wagoner’s apostolic network, I don’t recall anyone being publicly touted as an apostle during my time in Indonesia, which included just short of 9 years between 1997 and 2007. There may have been believers who studied the issue out in scripture hwo realized that there were church planters, for example, who had this gift. The idea that you could name principalities after problems and then cast those principalities out by commanding them in the name of Jesus was rather popular. That was the area where Wagoner’s influence seemed the most obvious and to me, rather concerning.

John Kissinger [12/03/2015 10:37 AM]
BTW our response was on issues brought in the book that did not necessarily need to have the book read. As you can see, it was more of an international alternative to what Macarthur was saying Peter A Vandever have you read the book?

Peter A Vandever [12/03/2015 10:39 AM]
Dr. Brown publically rebuked him for it too 🙂

John Kissinger [12/03/2015 10:40 AM]
lot’s of people did but actually Link Hudson NOT having read the book could allow a better perspective on the issue(s) overall

Link Hudson [12/03/2015 1:07 PM]
Peter A Vandever I listened to his ‘line of fire’ episode with Phil Johnson. If the study Johnson cited was their basis for MaCarthur saying the Charismatic movement is 90% ‘prosperity Gospel’, then maybe they don’t teach how to interpret surveys in honorary double doctorate school, or in seminaries that give out masters.

I think the question was something like, ‘do you believe that God grants prosperity to those who ask him in faith?’ One or two African countries had Charismatics answering over 90%. But did they back translate? Does ‘prosperity’ in Africa mean what it means to evangelicals in the US who are familiar with the US WOF movement? I hear some Africans call food on the table, clothes on their backs, and a roof over their heads, ‘prosperity’. It’s weird to me to hear someone who makes possibly a half a million dollars a year or more say some of these things about prosperity.

Peter A Vandever [12/03/2015 1:10 PM]
John hates far more than just the faith camp. He hates all Pentecostals equally.

John Kissinger [12/03/2015 5:22 PM]
and yet his Study Bible calls for pre-Trib rapture 🙂

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“Strange Fire”? Not in Global Ministry

Posted by in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

“Strange Fire”? Not in Global Ministry

Did this with Hanny Setiawan Dennis Balcombeand @Marius Lombaard back in the day. Wish I knew Link Hudson Peter A Vandever and Joseph Castillo to include them at that them but it’s never too late for another round

Link Hudson [12/02/2015 1:57 PM]
John Kissinger I would have been honored. I haven’t read the book yet. I’ve seen his sermons from the conference.

What I’d say about ‘Strange Fire’ is that if having church differently from what the Bible teaches is analagous to offering strange fire in the tabernacle, then who is really offering strange fire? I Corinthians 14 is the only long chapter in the New Testament that tells us what to do in church. It allows for regular members of the congregation to sing and speak and use their gifts to edify others. The rule is that all things be done unto edifying.

Speakers in tongues are specifically allowed to speak if there is an interpreter. Prophets are specifically allowed to speak, “Let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. The passage also says ‘For ye may all prophesy one by one….’ Paul presents all prophesying as a positive thing in the passage and encourages believers to prophesy.

If certain Reformed preachers want to redefine prophesying to refer to pulpit preaching of the word of God, as John MacArthur has deon in the past, then do these preachers actually obey their own interpretation and have two or three preachers or sermons per meeting? Are all allowed to preach one by one? I don’t accept the popular formed redefinition of ‘prophesy’ away from the Biblical understanding, but it seems that those who use this definition typically do not apply scripture within their own framework of interpretation when it comes to this passage.

If the ‘regulative principle’ is the right approach to church meetings, then we should follow what the Bible actually teaches directly about what to do in our gatherings. We should certainly allow tongues and interpretation, prophesying, and ‘regular believers’ to teach and edify the congregation. I can’t find the one-sermon, hymn sandwich meeting in scripture.

As far as my international experience with Peter Wagoner’s apostolic network, I don’t recall anyone being publicly touted as an apostle during my time in Indonesia, which included just short of 9 years between 1997 and 2007. There may have been believers who studied the issue out in scripture hwo realized that there were church planters, for example, who had this gift. The idea that you could name principalities after problems and then cast those principalities out by commanding them in the name of Jesus was rather popular. That was the area where Wagoner’s influence seemed the most obvious and to me, rather concerning.

John Kissinger [12/03/2015 10:37 AM]
BTW our response was on issues brought in the book that did not necessarily need to have the book read. As you can see, it was more of an international alternative to what Macarthur was saying Peter A Vandever have you read the book?

Peter A Vandever [12/03/2015 10:39 AM]
Dr. Brown publically rebuked him for it too 🙂

John Kissinger [12/03/2015 10:40 AM]
lot’s of people did but actually Link Hudson NOT having read the book could allow a better perspective on the issue(s) overall

Link Hudson [12/03/2015 1:07 PM]
Peter A Vandever I listened to his ‘line of fire’ episode with Phil Johnson. If the study Johnson cited was their basis for MaCarthur saying the Charismatic movement is 90% ‘prosperity Gospel’, then maybe they don’t teach how to interpret surveys in honorary double doctorate school, or in seminaries that give out masters.

I think the question was something like, ‘do you believe that God grants prosperity to those who ask him in faith?’ One or two African countries had Charismatics answering over 90%. But did they back translate? Does ‘prosperity’ in Africa mean what it means to evangelicals in the US who are familiar with the US WOF movement? I hear some Africans call food on the table, clothes on their backs, and a roof over their heads, ‘prosperity’. It’s weird to me to hear someone who makes possibly a half a million dollars a year or more say some of these things about prosperity.

Peter A Vandever [12/03/2015 1:10 PM]
John hates far more than just the faith camp. He hates all Pentecostals equally.

John Kissinger [12/03/2015 5:22 PM]
and yet his Study Bible calls for pre-Trib rapture 🙂

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