The gospels seem to attribute the conception of Jesus to holy breath (το γαρ εν αυτη γεννηθεν εκ πνευματος εστιν αγιου):
Yet Jesus’ father is not “the power of the most high” but rather the most high himself AND David:
Why isn’t the breath/spirit considered Jesus’ father? In these gospel passages is the breath/spirit a person? Or God’s “power” and creative “organ”?
This is the BDAG entry for the verb which appears in Matthew 1:20 as “conceived”:
γεννάω fut. γεννήσω; 1 aor. ἐγέννησα; pf. γεγέννηκα. Pass.: fut. pl.
γεννηθήσεσθε Sir 41:9; 1 aor. ἐγεννήθην; pf. γεγέννημαι (Pind.,
Hdt.+).—See ARahlfs, Genesis 1926, 39. Gener., to cause someth. to
come into existence, primarily through procreation or parturition. ①
become the parent of, beget ⓐ by procreation (oft. LXX, fr. Gen 4:18
on) Mt 1:2–20 (cp. Diod S 4, 67, 2–68, 6, the genealogy of the
Aeolians: 67, 4 Ἄρνη ἐγέννησεν Αἰόλον κ. Βοιωτόν; 67, 7 Ἱππάλκιμος
ἐγέννησε Πηνέλεων; 68:1 Σαλμωνεὺς ἐγέννησε θυγατέρα … Τυρώ; 68, 3
Ποσειδῶν ἐγέννησε Πελίαν κ. Νηλέα; 68, 6 Νηλεὺς παῖδας ἐγέννησε
δώδεκα. Interchanged with ἐγέννησε are ἐτέκνωσε, ἦν υἱός, παῖδες
ἐγένοντο, etc.; cp. PMich 155, 7. The continuity is not formalized to
the degree in Mt, but in Diod S 4, 69, 1–3 ἐγέννησε is repeated six
times in a short space, and 4, 75, 4f ἐγέννησε occurs four times with
the names of fathers and sons; Did., Gen. 144, 27); Ac 7:8, 29. ἐκ w.
gen. of the mother (Hdt. 1, 108, 2; Diod S 4, 2, 1; 4, 62, 1; Palaeph.
44; PLond V, 1730, 10 οἱ ἐξ αὐτῆς γεννηθέντες υἱοί; Tob 1:9; 2 Esdr
10:44; Demetr.: 722 Fgm. 2, 2 Jac.; TestJob 1:6; Jos, Ant. 12, 189) Mt
1:3, 5f.—Pass. be fathered (Orig., C. Cels. 8, 66, 23) ἐκ τῆς
παιδίσκης κατὰ σάρκα w. the slave-woman, according to the flesh (i.e.
in line with human devising; opp. διʼ ἐπαγγελίας) Gal 4:23. ὁ κατὰ
σάρκα γεννηθείς he that was fathered by human design, opp. ὁ κατὰ
πνεῦμα he that was fathered by the Spirit’s design, i.e. in keeping
with the divine promise, vs. 23) vs. 29. τὸ ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν ἐκ
πνεύματός ἐστιν that which is conceived in her is of the Spirit Mt
1:20 (τὸ γεννηθέν of that which is yet unborn: Diod S 17, 77, 3). Here
the male principle is introduced by ἐκ (Lucian, Dial. Deor. 20, 14 ἐκ
κύκνου γεγεννημένη; Phlegon: 257 Fgm. 36, 2, 4 Jac.; Ps-Callisth. 1,
30, 3 ἐξ Ἄμμωνος ἐγεννήθη; TestSim 2:2) as J 1:13 (ἐγενήθ. P75et al.);
but in 3:6 the imagery is complex, involving a maternal aspect in vs.
4. W. ἀπό (En 15:8 οἱ γίγαντες οἱ γεννηθέντες ἀπὸ τ. πνευμάτων κ. σαρκός) ἀφʼ ἑνὸς ἐγεννήθησαν they were fathered by one man Hb 11:12
(numerous edd. ἐγενήθησαν). ἐκ πορνείας οὐ γεγεννήμεθα (v.l.
ἐγεννήθημεν) J 8:41 (cp. StudPal XX, 4, 30 ἐξ ἀγράφων γάμων
γεγεννῆσθαι). ἐν ἁμαρτίαις σὺ ἐγεννήθης ὅλος you’re a born sinner,
totally! 9:34.—Lk 1:35 (where mng. 2 is also prob. [as in τὸ
γεννώμενον Philo, Plant. 15]. S. AFridrichsen, SymbOsl 6, 1928, 33–36;
HAlmqvist, Plut. u. d. NT ’46, 60f). ⓑ by exercising the role of a
parental figure, ext. of 1a (Philo, Leg. ad Gai. 58 μᾶλλον αὐτὸν τῶν
γονέων γεγέννηκα), of a teacher on pupils ἐν Χ. Ἰ. διὰ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου
ὑμᾶς ἐγέννησα I became your father as Christians through the gospel 1
Cor 4:15; Phlm 10 (s. Ltzm. and JWeiss on 1 Cor 4:15; ADieterich,
Mithraslit. 1903, 146ff).—Pass. ἐκ (τοῦ) θεοῦ γεννᾶσθαι J 1:13 (on the
rdg. of the Lat. ms. b, s. JPryor, NovT 27, ’85, 296–318); 1J 2:29;
3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4, 18. On γεννᾶσθαι ἐξ ὕδατος κ. πνεύματος J 3:5 cp.
1QS 4:20–22 and s. YYadin, JBL 74, ’55, 40–43. Also ἄνωθεν γ. J 3:3,
7. πᾶς ὁ ἀγαπῶν τὸν γεννήσαντα ἀγαπᾷ τὸν γεγεννημένον ἐξ αὐτοῦ everyone who loves the father (=God) loves the child (=Christ or one’s
fellow Christian) 1J 5:1 (on γεννᾶσθαι ἐκ θεοῦ s. Hdb. on J 3:3 and 1J
3:9 and the sources and lit. listed there; s. also παλιγγενεσία). Cp.
σήμερον γεγέννηκά σε (Ps 2:7) 1 Cl 36:4; GEb 18, 37; Ac 13:33 (held by
some to have been the orig. rdg. Lk 3:22 v.l.; s. JHillmann, Die
Kindheitsgesch. Jesu nach Lucas: Jahrbücher f. Protestantische
Theologie 17/2, 1891, 192–261; HUsener, D. Weihnachtsfest2 1911,
38ff); Hb 1:5; 5:5. p 194 ② to give birth to, bear (Aeschyl.,
Suppl. 48; X., De Rep. Lac. 1, 3; Lucian, Sacrif. 6; Plut., Mor., 3c;
Ps.-Callisth. 1, 9, 2 ἐκ θεοῦ γεννήσασα παῖδα=a woman who has borne a
child to a god; BGU 132 II, 5; Judg 11:1 B; Is 66:9; 4 Macc 10:2) Lk
1:13, 57; 23:29; J 16:21 w. τίκτειν; AcPl Ha 8, 28 εἰς δουλείαν
γεννῶσα who bears children for slavery Gal 4:24. Pass. be born (ἐκ
παρθένου Did., Gen. 96, 13) ἐγεννήθη Μωϋσῆς Ac 7:20; cp. Hb 11:23.
γεγεννημένος ἐν Ταρσῷ Ac 22:3; μήπω … γεννηθέντων Ro 9:11; πρὶν ἡμᾶς
γεννηθῆναι before we were born 1 Cl 38:3. εἰς τὸν κόσμον come into the
world J 16:21; Mt 2:1, 4; 19:12; 26:24 (=1 Cl 46:8); Mk 14:21 (cp. En
38:2); Lk 1:35 (1a is also prob.; a v.l. adds ἐκ σοῦ, which can be
rendered ‘the child to whom you give birth’). ἐκ Μαρίας ἐγεννήθη
AcPlCor 1:14; 2:5 (cp. Mt 1:16); J 3:4; 9:2, 19f, 32; IEph 18:2; ITr
11:2; ἀληθῶς γ. be in fact born (in opp. to Docetism) 9:1. γεγεννημένα
(v.l. γεγενημένα) εἰς ἅλωσιν 2 Pt 2:12. εἰς τοῦτο for this purpose J
18:37. διάλεκτος ἐν ᾑ ἐγεννήθημεν the language in which we were born
i.e., which we have spoken fr. infancy Ac 2:8. ἐγὼ δὲ καὶ γεγέννημαι
but I was actually born a Roman citizen 22:28. οὗτος ἐγεννήθη βασιλεύς
born a king GJs 20:4 codd. γεννῶνται και γεννῶσιν Lk 20:34 v.l. ③ to
cause someth. to happen, bring forth, produce, cause, fig. of various
kinds of production (Pla. et al.; Polyb. 1, 67, 2 στάσις ἐγεννᾶτο;
Philo, De Jos. 254; Jos., Ant. 6, 144) 2 Ti 2:23.—γ. καρπόν produce
fruit (Philo, Op. M. 113) ITr 11:1. Forged writing γεγεννημένον for
γεγενημένον GJs 24:3.—B. 280. DELG s.v. γίγνομαι p. 222. M-M. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon
of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed.,
pp. 193–194). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Varnel Watson
Terry Wiles very timely post as well They called it right on Sessions too https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/methodists-bring-church-charges-against-jeff-sessions_us_5b28fc2ee4b0a4dc9920b9dd
Terry Wiles
Here we go again. The same group was silent with President Clinton’s AG had ICE and the FBI break in with guns to separate a child and return him to CUBA. People report what they want others to swallow.
Brian Roden
So what do you make of this article:
https://reformationcharlotte.org/2019/02/27/while-christians-applaud-the-umcs-ban-on-homosexuality-dont-forget-they-still-officially-support-abortion/?fbclid=IwAR3mjn-Rj0P-khj7h3rODScUH99W9vxrOhw-TaPoIstDBwWhc2p4i4VdBIo
I followed the links to the UMC documents cited, and it appears the the writer of the article conveniently ignores some of the strong statements against abortion that are on the UMC web site.
Varnel Watson
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/methodist-and-episcopalian-church-lead-prayer-to-bless-abortions/
Terry Wiles
Brian Roden Don’t worry. The outside the USA coalition won’t hold for long. The USA group supports both Homosexuality and abortion.
Brian Roden
I’m praying that the church discipline some are talking about will result in the removal of the left wing bishops, allowing the faithful elements within the UMC to right the ship rather than have to abandon it. The grassroots UMC members I hear from are much more conservative than the bishops that have been pushing an agenda.
Varnel Watson
they’ve been holding for quite some years now
Terry Wiles
Brian Roden I too pray for that to happen. Not sure that coalition exists with the younger members of the national group. I know there are some conservation Methodist groups, particularly in the South. Perhaps the South will rise up. God help us all. Everything is seeming to “slouch toward Gomorrah” as Bork prophetically declared years ago. It seems to me there is an attitude of “tolerance” even among many young Pentecostal leaders. Hope I’m missing something.
Tim Dalton
The gays have had power since the 80s. Each year the gay caucus in the UMC grows stronger and more perverted. Many of the conservative groups (good news etc.” are not biblically conservative and I wonder if they don’t use those groups as a way to get grassroots power.
I turned in my credentials in the UMC in the 80s as the supremacy of scripture had taken a back seat. Once that happens, it opens up for sin in the church. I see that happening or has happened in Pentecostal denominations.
Others may hear from grassroots members, but the power in the church are the conferences. They are made up of the Elders. I could give you a deep history of the downward history of the Methodists, but I will leave it for now saying that by 1812 the most famous american circuit rider, peter Cartwright, said the church had already died. It has had a long funeral.
Varnel Watson
Since the 80s or since Sodom ?
Louise Cummings
Thank the Lord.
Marco Darko
not shocked
Varnel Watson
whats to be shocked about? – they did the right thing when they voted against it – no?
Varnel Watson
Some see that happening or has happened in Pentecostal denominations and this is where Tim Dalton is dead wrong
Tim Dalton
please share your knowledge of the UMC. Are you an insider?
Varnel Watson
I am on entire sanctification – what do you need to know? What denomination are you ?
Tim Dalton
Troy Day you said I was wrong about the UMC. Did I say they were wrong or did you once again fail to read. Troy what University did you attend for your degrees.
Varnel Watson
I was commenting on your prior remarks What denomination are you – is ti going gay too?
Tim Dalton
Troy Day I was an ordained Elder in the UMC but left in the 80s. I am now Calvary Chapel. The old hippie in me.
Tim Dalton
I still have very close friends who are in leadership in the UMC.
Varnel Watson
which one?
Tim Dalton
Many in leadership, but I keep things kinda private on the net.
Varnel Watson
I see You probably have more info then all of us then Pls share about how strong the outside support is and IF UMC is going into the whole gay ordination anytime soon
Tim Dalton
Troy Day Not really. The gay movement is very strong and grow stronger in the USA daily. I resigned in the 80s over thei ssue of the authority of scripture. There was a very strong underground movement then. It has come above ground and has gained many lay members. It is all about who owns the property, but I can see full ordination in the USA. That means it will be a separate church from the rest of the world.
Varnel Watson
So you’ve been out for quite few decades now What about their historical archives? Where can one research on the historic development of this issue through the years?
Tim Dalton
Troy Day Drew University, Perkins at SMU http://www.gcah.org/ http://www.umc.org/who-we-are/commission-on-archives-history
Tim Dalton
If my memory is correct, in the early 80s the first trial of a clergy person for being a self-proclaimed, avowed practicing Homosexual caused a major storm in the church. It was in Colorado. That was the litmus test and it grew from there. There are many practicing in the ordained ministry today. In fact whole churches (welcoming) with alternate lifestyle Pastors.
Varnel Watson
Tim Dalton you still seems to be citing your own memories from the 80s America – the issue has been long international As a matter of fact it has not been American / Western since the 80s What is our current response still remains to be figured out
Tim Dalton
well you got some urls and actually I have friends, but some info was confidential. I have actually moved on although I pray for the people I knew. I still encouraged those I know in the UMC.
Varnel Watson
ursl with confidential info? – pls do tell
Tim Dalton
Troy Day look up confidential. They told me as they trust me and know I will pray about the situations.