Is there a pre-tribulation rapture or is the rapture concept as a whole nothing but hogwash?
Robert Paul Gardner [01/30/2016 12:17 PM]
I personally lean towards a Pretrib Rapture because of verses such as 1st Thessalonians 4:16,17 and revelation 3:10. I must admit however that I’m willing to wrong however I can assure Jesus is coming again.
CrossTheology [01/30/2016 12:21 PM]
Brian Garrett [01/30/2016 12:22 PM]
I’m post trib also. There is only one second coming on the day of the Lord.
Ricky Grimsley [01/30/2016 12:29 PM]
Pretrib rapture is hogwash but there will be a rapture. https://youtu.be/JV2txxxdVEQ
Steve Webb [01/30/2016 12:33 PM]
Nice to see this argument revisited. And to see it called hogwash when there is a clear lack of understanding. We are not appointed to wrath, we will be raptured before the tribulation. This is a tired discussion from several threads.
Brody Pope [01/30/2016 12:34 PM]
Its not tired for me. So, i wanna see y’alls opinions.
Brenda Stephenson Minister [01/30/2016 12:35 PM]
There will be only one Rapture..There is not a Pre anything
Robert Paul Gardner [01/30/2016 12:35 PM]
Not to be argumentative but if posttribulationism is in fact correct wouldn’t we be able to calculate when Jesus is coming once the antichrist came? Also why even have a catching away of the church if its simultaneous with Christ returning to earth?
Ricky Grimsley [01/30/2016 12:42 PM]
The pre-wrath position answers the argument. The day of the lord or the second coming begins with the rapture but it isnt just one 24 hour day. We will not experience God’s wrath but will experience the wrath of the antichrist and satan.
Ricky Grimsley [01/30/2016 12:42 PM]
Brody Pope https://youtu.be/JV2txxxdVEQ
Ricky Grimsley [01/30/2016 12:56 PM]
And this isnt a tired argument. This one of the most important ones. Imagine how pretribbers will be caught off guard. I know they say they cant be fooled….but they already are.
Robert Paul Gardner [01/30/2016 1:02 PM]
I just have one question for my Posttrib brethren. You always ask us if we Pretribbers are willing to be wrong but what about you? Are you willing to be wrong? I’m willing to be wrong as a Pretribber.
Steve Webb [01/30/2016 1:02 PM]
Tired as in this is about the hundredth time it’s been discussed. I’ve posted teachings and scripture, so have opposing views. And no ground gained in either direction
Ricky Grimsley [01/30/2016 1:06 PM]
If my position is wrong we can laugh together the whole seven years in heaven. If i am right i am prepared.
Terry Wiles [01/30/2016 1:14 PM]
I agree with Ricky Grimsley. It is best to have an imminent return mindset. Expecting a great outcry from this esteemed group, but here goes:
The Disciples question.
What will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?
Jesus gave a description of the culture (24:4-14). He didn’t talk about blood moons nor appearances of angels.
He talked about the culture.
• The political realm (v6): Wars and rumors of wars
• The natural realm (v7): Famines, earthquakes, plagues
• The moral realm (12): Lawlessness, rejection of authority
• The spiritual realm (11-12): Many false prophets, lukewarm church
• The social realm (38): Life as usual, leaving God out
He said, “all these are the beginnings of sorrows.” All of the above things bring sorrows. Do we take it out of context to look at Jesus statement in this way? It is something to think about.
He said, (v 13) He who endures to the end shall be saved.
To endure is difficult. You know that. You are in the ministry. It’s difficult to endure.
• There is always the presence of evil.
o At earth’s first altar stood earth’s first murderer with the saint.
o Within heaven’s first leadership team there was a Judas among the apostles..
• There have been many failures by that does not in any way mean that we should consider the Gospel a failure.
o Paul’s greatest expectation in his labors was that he “might save some.”
o James said the objective of the offer of God’s grace to the Gentiles was to, “take out of them a people for His name.” (Acts 15:14-15)
o The role of the church is to make the offer of salvation to all mankind and the preaching of the Gospel will be effective to the salvation of a people who believe in His name.
o God has promised that Christ will have His acknowledged representatives in every generation.
The Church has gone forth and offered salvation to mankind.
The preaching of the Gospel is continually being effective to the salvation of a people who believe in His name.
Christ has continually called for and had His acknowledged representative in every generation.
• The Scriptures distinctly tell us specific truths we must be mindful of.
o The devil is the prince and god of this age.
o Christ’s ministers in this age are never anything but ambassadors at a foreign court.
o The saints are always mere (ordinary) pilgrims and strangers on the earth.
o The Gospel is to be preached only as a witness to the nations.
o When the Son of Man comes, He will hardly find faith on the earth, they will be evil days wherein mankind is united together in unparalleled rebellion and wicked ness.
• Love to Jesus is the root of all true Christianity.
o It is the perfection of faith. (trust)
o It is the fulfilling of the law. (obey)
o It is the heart that takes fire at the mention of His name.
o The primary source of all defective Christianity is the fading of love.
o Love is characterized by unswerving and uncompromising devotion.
Love takes Christ as Lord.
Love labors for Him. He is the full extent of all they have and are.
• True Christianity is often poor, provoked, and often persecuted unto death.
o The richest and most independent man must be poor in spirit if he is to inherit the Kingdom of God.
• True Christianity is not marked by a regard for this world and its goods. It is marked by the regard true believers have for the payment of the reward at the coming and revelation of Jesus Christ.
o They choose to suffer affliction with the people of God, rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season.
o They regard the criticism of Christ greater riches than all the treasures in Egypt.
o There is a crown of life at which they aim.
o There is a heavenly privilege and honor that fills their vision: An acknowledgement before God and angels. An inheritance with Jesus that they will share for all eternity, principalities in the eternal Kingdom.
o They believe it is the will of god that they should have them.
o They wait for them looking not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen.
o They confess that they are strangers and pilgrims on the earth, “looking for that blessed hope, the glorious appearing of God our Savior. (Titus 2:13)
o True believers do not sorrow at the graveside as others which have no hope.
o Many have died, they have fallen asleep. Every day, one and then another of them, in every age, has been placed in the tomb.
Their bodies lie scattered over all the world.
The places that once know them know them no more.
They died knowing that Christ passed through tomb and now lived.
They died knowing He has the keys of death and the grave.
o True believers know that when Christ comes there will be no difference between the dead and the living. They know the prophecy of Christ who said, “Do not let your heart be troubled, I will come again and take you unto myself. Where I am you will be with me. There will be a place prepared for you. They know the prophecy of the Apostle Paul about the Lord’s return. The Lord will descend from heaven with a shout. The dead in Christ will rise out of their graves. The living saints will rise with them. They know the prophecy of the Isaiah 26:19-21.
• The Lord will come out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.
• But your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise.
• My people will come into the place I have prepared for them. They will be hidden there.
One of these days or nights while people are busy with life, unknown to the unbelieving world; here one, and there another, shall suddenly disappear. Believers will be “caught up” like Enoch who was not found. Because God had taken him. (Hebrews 11:5)
Invisibly. Without noise. Miraculously. They will vanish from those about them. They will ascend to be with their Lord.
There will be strange announcements on the “breaking news” about the missing ones.
On that day, for the first time, those who are slow to believe what the prophets have written will wake to the truth.
Immediately they will realize, that half-Christianity is not sufficient to keep lamps burning.
They will rush to empty buildings they called the church to find sufficient oil. It will be too late.
Jesus Answer to the disciples question
Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:44-26 You must also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. Who is the faithful and wise servant of the Master? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.
John Kissinger [01/30/2016 2:38 PM]
500+ comments later and here we go again #preTrib http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/if-you-are-pre-trib-in-belief-and-you-are-not/
Michael Marquez [01/30/2016 4:51 PM]
The problem with the Post-Trib position is that those who hold this view must admit that Christ cannot come back at anytime. The post-trib places Christ coming back AFTER the 7 year Tribulation of the reign of Antichrist.
Ricky Grimsley [01/30/2016 5:04 PM]
Well he cant come back at any time so np
David N Laura Aragon [01/30/2016 5:08 PM]
AFTER THE TRIBULATION ALL WILL HEAR HIS SHOUT AND SEE HIM IN THE CLOUD / ALL NATIONS.
John Kissinger [01/30/2016 5:12 PM]
PERRY STONE makes a pretty good case that will be BEFORE the Tribulation and answers all TOUGH QUESTIONS ABOUT THE RAPTURE http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/perry-stone-tough-questions-about-the-rapture/
Ricky Grimsley [01/30/2016 5:20 PM]
Perry stone avoids all the tough question
John Kissinger [01/30/2016 5:20 PM]
our own Steve Webb has also made a solid case for the DEFENSE OF PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/defense-of-pre-tribulation-rapture/
Ricky Grimsley [01/30/2016 5:37 PM]
I am 11 minutes in and all i hear is pre trib is true and everything else is false because pretrib is true. Not much of a defense yet.
John Kissinger [01/30/2016 5:38 PM]
This is WHY I BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE TAKING PLACE AT PRE-TRIB http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-i-believe-in-the-rapture-taking-place-at-pre-trib/
Ricky Grimsley [01/30/2016 5:40 PM]
Note the third verse.
1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 KJVS
 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.