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Job
18 “Why did you bring me out from the womb?
Would that I had died before any eye had seen me
19 and were as though I had not been,
carried from the womb to the grave.
20 Are not my days few?
Then cease, and leave me alone, that I may find a little cheer
21 before I go—and I shall not return—
to the land of darkness and deep shadow,
22 the land of gloom like thick darkness,
like deep shadow without any order,
where light is as thick darkness.”
[Job 10:21-22 ESV]
10 But a man dies and is laid low;
man breathes his last, and where is he?
11 As waters fail from a lake
and a river wastes away and dries up,
12 so a man lies down and rises not again;
till the heavens are no more he will not awake
or be roused out of his sleep.
[Job 14:10-12 ESV]
13 If I hope for Sheol as my house,
if I make my bed in darkness,
14 if I say to the pit, ‘You are my father,’
and to the worm, ‘My mother,’ or ‘My sister,’
15 where then is my hope?
Who will see my hope?
16 Will it go down to the bars of Sheol?
Shall we descend together into the dust?”
[Job 17:13-16 ESV]
Jesus
19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
[Luke 16:19-31 ESV]
Job described Sheol as a place of darkness and deep shadow, where man is in a state of sleep, hopeless, with worms, in the dust.
In contrast, Jesus described Sheol as a place where there is both torment for the wicked and comfort for the righteous, with at least two compartments with a great chasm in between, where the dead are very awake and conscious, not asleep.
Question
Is there a contradiction between Job’s and Jesus’ understanding of Sheol? Did Job and Jesus have different views on death and the afterlife?
Related BHSE questions
- Is there a contradiction between Ecclesiastes 9:5 & Luke 16:19-31?
- Luke 16:19-31 Lazarus and the rich man – literal, allegorical or a mixture of both?
- Didn't David and Isaiah believe they would go to a paradise, in the presence of God, where they would worship Him, as soon as they died?
Related CSE questions
Troy Day
NO John Mushenhouse Philip Williams Dan Cross
Dan Cross
Troy Day The origins of Job, especially the date it took place, has been the subject of much debate. Many would argue, I am not one, that it does not belong in the canon. In many respects, it does not seem to fit in with much of the rest of the historic books of the Old Testament, which is why it is placed among psalms and proverbs.
All that being said, it is taught to have taken place very early. Now, depending on what one beliefs about the difference between Genesis 1 & 2.
The “Prior Creation” (Gap) Theory
Core claim:
Between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 there is an indeterminate gap of time in which a previous creation existed, fell into ruin, and was later re-created or restored by God.
Scriptural Basis Proposed by Advocates
1. Genesis 1:1
– Original creation: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.”
2. Genesis 1:2
– Something catastrophic happened: “The earth became formless and void”
• The Hebrew word hayah can be translated “became,” not only “was”
• “Tohu va-bohu” (formless and void) is elsewhere associated with judgment (Isa. 34:11; Jer. 4:23)
3. Genesis 1:3–31
– God then reforms, refills, and restores the earth
– Light is restored; land emerges; life returns
What Happened in the Gap?
Interpretations vary, but most include:
1. A Pre-Adamic Creation
• Possibly including angels or even an earlier form of humanity
2. Satan’s Fall Occurred in This Time
• Satan rebelled, resulting in cosmic judgment
• Earth was plunged into darkness and chaos (interpreting Gen. 1:2 as judgment imagery)
3. Genesis 1:3ff is not the first creation but a re-creation
• God brings order back out of chaos
Dan Cross
Troy Day the motivation behind the theory is an explanation for:
Theological
Places Satan’s fall before humanity’s existence, not requiring him to sin in Eden
Fossil Record
Some have used it to reconcile older geology/fossils with Scripture
Biblical Nuance
Accounts for tension between “perfect creation” and subsequent chaos
Philip Williams
The Hell of outer darkness, weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth taught by Jesus concerns those who rebel against him. This judgement had to await his crucifixion.
Troy Day
this statement by Philip Williams is theologically and exegetically weak in multiple ways. Here are ten lines of argument you can use against it, focusing on Scripture and basic logic.
1. Judgment already present in Jesus’ ministry
Jesus speaks of judgment as already occurring in his earthly ministry, not as something that must “await” the crucifixion.
For example, in John 9:39 and 12:31 (“now is the judgment of this world”), judgment is described as a present reality tied to his coming, not solely to the later event of the cross.
2. Old Testament judgment before the cross
The Old Testament repeatedly depicts God judging rebels long before Christ’s crucifixion (e.g., the flood, Sodom, exiles).
Prophets describe God’s fiery judgment and punishment of evildoers centuries before Christ, so it is false to say such judgment “had to await” the cross.
3. Gehenna/hell language in Jesus’ pre‑crucifixion teaching
Jesus uses judgment and “hell of fire” (Gehenna) language during his earthly ministry, before the crucifixion occurs.
Warnings of “eternal fire,” “unquenchable fire,” and severe judgment on evildoers appear in his preaching as already impending realities, not suspended until after the cross.
4. “Outer darkness” tied to kingdom exclusion, not timing of the cross
Passages about “outer darkness” (Matthew 8:12; 22:13; 25:30) emphasize exclusion from the messianic banquet/kingdom rather than specifying a calendar point when judgment becomes possible.
The imagery comes from banquet and feast settings (inside light versus outside darkness), focusing on status (inside/outside), not on when judgment first becomes operative.
5. “Weeping and gnashing” as response, not mechanism dependent on the cross
“Weeping and gnashing of teeth” describes the anguish and rage of those under judgment, not a mechanism that depends on the cross to exist.
This phrase is used as a stock picture of intense sorrow and pain that can apply whenever judgment falls, not just after Golgotha.
6. Judgment is for all persistent rebels, not only explicit post‑crucifixion rebels against Jesus
Traditional exegesis understands the weeping/gnashing texts as applying broadly to the wicked or unbelieving, not narrowly and only to conscious “rebels against him” after the cross event.
Limiting these sayings only to explicitly post‑Calvary “rebels against Jesus” ignores the way Jesus applies them to hypocrites, unfaithful servants, and “sons of the kingdom” who presume on privilege.
7. The cross reveals and confirms judgment; it does not create it ex nihilo
Many theologians stress that the cross is the climactic revelation and bearing of judgment, not the first time divine judgment becomes real.
In this reading, the cross manifests and concentrates God’s already-existing judgment against sin, rather than initiating the very possibility of hell or “outer darkness.”
8. Parables locate judgment at the eschaton, not at the historical moment of crucifixion
Jesus’ parables (e.g., wheat and tares, dragnet, sheep and goats) place separation, fire, and “weeping and gnashing of teeth” at “the end of the age.”
This “end of the age” framework contradicts the claim that the decisive start-point of such judgment is strictly the moment of crucifixion.
9. Some interpretations deny “outer darkness” equals eternal hell at all
A number of evangelical and universalist interpreters argue that “outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth” do not refer to final hell, but to severe but remedial or temporal judgment.
If these texts are not strictly about final hell, the statement’s tight identification of “the Hell of outer darkness” with post‑crucifixion judgment on rebels is doubly vulnerable.
10. Logical problem: it disconnects pre‑cross rebels from real judgment
If “this judgment had to await his crucifixion,” then generations of rebels before Christ would have no true experience of divine judgment, which contradicts both Scripture and most Christian traditions.
Terry Wiles Neil Steven Lawrence Dan Cross Dan Irving Scotty Searan John Mushenhouse Steve Stevens David Levandusky Ricky Grimsley Walter Polasik
Troy Day
I think the key distinction is that Job and Jesus may be describing the same reality at different stages of revelation. Job lived in an era with less developed understanding of the afterlife—he spoke of Sheol as a place of darkness and unconsciousness (Job 10:21-22). But Jesus, centuries later, provided greater clarity about the afterlife’s moral structure, distinguishing between the destination of the righteous and the unrighteous with specific imagery (outer darkness, weeping, gnashing of teeth in Luke 16:19-31).
This isn’t necessarily contradiction—it’s progressive revelation. Job’s understanding was accurate for his time and context, but Jesus sharpens and expands the picture. Both can be true: Sheol is a place of departed spirits, AND it has degrees of torment based on one’s standing before God. The “contradiction” often stems from reading Job’s poetic language about death as a complete statement of afterlife doctrine, when it’s actually one part of a fuller biblical picture.