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Is defensive murder a SIN in the eyes of God?
Guest;
Privilege Moyo Obviously NOT
Guest;
Murder is murder.
Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image. -Genesis 9:6
But
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
-1 John 1:9
Guest;
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15
Guest;
You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
-Matthew 5:21-22
Guest;
Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
-Romans 12:19
Guest;
Sin is sin, we don’t Reason out of forgiveness, yes there are bad people and if they hurt us we defend ourselves but that doesn’t mean we are licensed to kill. If we did accidentally and not intentionally, take the consequence and asked for forgiveness to God.
Guest;
Murder – the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. If it’s defensive it’s not murder.
Guest;
Here’s the thing, if it’s “defensive,” it’s not murder by definition. But that not withstanding, if someone comes to do legitimate serious harm to you, or your family, I don’t think that God expects us to be so passive, that we don’t do anything and everything to protect our family
Guest;
is it a CRIME by the law of your land ?
Guest;
No but it set limits in our life of what we can do for God like King David
Guest;
Theology brothers, not what we all think from our finite mind. Let us search the word of God, for God is infinite in His wisdom and knowledge.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2 Tim. 2:15
Guest;
No its not
Guest;
Gotta stand up and defete evil
Guest;
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”
– James 1:5
in most cases non lethal means can resolve or contain even a violent conflict.
Guest;
God commands to kill shortly after he gave the 10 commandments. One is murder , the other is to kill….there is a difference
Guest;
Murder is not defensive
Guest;
Are there biblical references which emulate this scenerio?
Guest;
Defensive murder? The phrase is an oxymoron.
Guest;
As a recovering pacifist, the 5th Commandment is definitely concerning murder, not justified killing.
Guest;
Clyde M. Hughes you probably meat the 6th?
Does the hebrew language make difference between murder VS justified killing OR is this a more of a western interpretation
In English, there are different ways of stating that “Ploni killed Almoni” depending on the culpability and guilt involved. (The names “Ploni” and “Almoni” are traditionally used in rabbinic commentaries as the Jewish equivalent of “John Doe.” See Ruth 4:1.) Consider the different possible ways of describing the killing:
• First-degree, or pre-meditated murder.
• Second-degree murder; an intentional murder in the spur-of-the-moment, albeit not pre-meditated or planned.
• Voluntary homicide, a form of manslaughter.
• Involuntary homicide, a less culpable form of manslaughter, such as if a driver accidentally hit a jay-walking pedestrian.
Note that “killing” itself need not have a moral context — a soldier kills in battle, an intended murder victim kills in self-defense, a drug dealer kills his competition, a doctor kills a patient. Whether “killing” caries criminal culpability (the drug dealer), civil culpability (the doctor), or is righteous (the intended murder victim) depends on the context and circumstances.
Guest;
The question is loaded. You call it ‘defensive murder’ which means you are using language that labels it as a sin.
Guest;
SOMEONE already said pacifist
First Pentecostals were pacifists
So were the first Christians of the Early Church
Guest;
thats why they are mostly martyrs
Guest;
A non-criminal homicide ruling, usually committed in self-defense or in defense of another, exists under United States law. A homicide may be considered justified if it is done to prevent a very serious crime, such as rape, armed robbery, manslaughter or murder. https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2017/05/21/you-can-get-charged-with-murder-for-defensive-gun-use-even-in-a-stand-your-ground-state/
Isara Mo
No it is not.
That is why He said Dont suffer a witch to live because He knows the witch is a murderer…so killing her to save your skin is not murder..
It is called judgement..
Varnel Watson
NT verses please
Isara Mo
Troy Day
I gave you an illustration….and if God doesnt change nor His words so it stands..
In Rev 2:18 Jesus says He will KILL Jezebels children…if she didnt repent.
I bet when He is finished wirh the children He will cut off the mothers arrogant neck..
Self defence mechanism is inbuilt in EVERY CREATURE since creation..
Being born again doesnt change that fact..
If a burglar or murderer invades your home you wouldnt go on praying in toungues but go for his throat..TROY and for you Americans you wouldnt reach for your Bible but for your gun..faster.
Someone will say Mr.Isara you are mistaken, you have skewed ideas about God..
Oh sure, when Pharaoh wanted to kill the baby Jesus God didnt sorround the new king with angels of fire but he told Joseph RUN ..to EGYPT for Pharaoh wants to kill the BABY.
That is Gods way of handling situations..
You just go on singing the angels of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him and yet dont take proactive action asuredly as the sun rises, you will end up in mortuary….your days will be cut short.
Anytime you say SELF DEFENCE you speak of protection of body soul, spirit ..the total man
So any species which endangers ones life must be routed and wiped off…
God will philosophy wont work when one doesnt rouse themselves to reality.
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo is Jezebel defensive act? What about some NT verses for what you said – are there any?
Isara Mo
Troy Day Rev 2:18 is NT
Varnel Watson
? To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. ?
Neil Steven Lawrence
Isara Mo I agree with you about protecting yourself and your family. Look at Nigeria and how the Christians have been forced to fight back Against the evil Muslims. Is this right… Of course it is; we do not have to put up with people who want to kill us it is our duty to defend us and our family and our churches. It is even our duty to defend other people who may be godless if wicked people are trying to harm them. Problem is many western Christians have become wimpy and they confuse this for being spiritual.
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day “Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” 1 Tim. 5:8
Using violence even to the point of killing someone in self-defense of yourself or your family is justifiable from Scripture. Providing for your family includes protecting them from harm.
Defensive killing is not murder. The same concept can be argued in the case of a “just war.“
The scripture defines killing and murder differently.
Isara Mo
Neil Steven Lawrence
Thanks Neil.
I think we have a problem when it comes to REAL.LIFE situations.
We pretend to be super spritual , super natural and end up being spritual.eunuchs…sorry to say that.
But even eunuchs when told to kill they kill..
Jehu came to kill Jezebel but didnt set his hands on her but commanded the eunuchs to thrown be her down…possibly from a storey building and they did..
1
Varnel Watson
Neil Steven Lawrence you mean murder AS providing for your family? Any world war goes then? Joe Absher
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Troy lets leave this subject..
There is no murderer here..
Nobody has ever killed a man in self defence in here.. so when it happens only then we will be in a position to KNOW FOR SURE..why .
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day The Christian chaplains during World War II prayed for the success, protection and lives of the soldiers before they went into battle… Were they wrong?
Let’s just let the demonically infested Hitler take over our lands and tell us what to do… that’s OK because we are Christians!
Replace the above statement name “Hitler“ with the word “Muslim” and ask the same question.
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day Does provision not include protection?
Isara Mo
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy knows all the facts but just wants an argument..
Varnel Watson
Neil Steven Lawrence I simply asked Isara Mo for a NT verse and he failed to provide it Thats all
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day Rev. 19: 11-21
“I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.
…Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.
…The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.”
Varnel Watson
Neil Steven Lawrence this is in self defense? and is recommended for believers today?
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day Do you believe in a just war? This is on the level of a nation.… So extrapolate backwards to an individual. If evil people attack that individual and the authorities are not there to protect them they have the right to defend themselves. The Bible and the laws of the land affirm the protecting of human life from evil people. We are not to surrender to evil people except in the cause of suffering for Christ to preach his gospel. Even then we don’t willingly die when we can escape. Look at Paul who is lowered down in a basket and Peter who fled from jail after the angels opened it for him.
As believers in Christ we are not constrained to prove our spiritual behavior from the New Testament alone. Even the early church‘s Bible was the old testament because they didn’t have the New Testament yet.
Louise Cummings
It would be better to cast the devil of witchcraft out of her. Not to enter another person.
Louise Cummings
Of course you have to really be prayed up to cast out devils. But we should stay prayed up. I feel Gods presence some days when I pray than others. But I believe that’s my fault. I should always be praying to feel His Presence every day. And I love it when I feel Him in a strong way at home. And be listening to see if He tells me anything. Like led me to Scriptures. And usually gives me a message, when I mediate onHim or His Word. But He is The Word. Is what John said.
Varnel Watson
I dont see it in the verse you showed Isara Mo
Louise Cummings
Troy Day I don’t remember showing him a Bible verse. What was it about? I guess I made two comments where you all was giving Bible verses. I didn’t realize it was all Bible Verses. Of course casting out devils is Biblical. But I didn’t give a verse. I just made a comment about it. What you all was giving was all Bible. I didn’t realize that unti now when I was reading over it to see what I said. The only time I remember reading about casting out a spirit of witch craft was the girl that followed Paul around. Saying these men are men of the Most High God. Paul got tired of it. And cast the devil out of her. They put Paul and Silas in jail. But what I found I said was just Cast the devil outfit them and tell them not to enter any one els. But I was just making comments on it. If that isn’t it , let me know what Scripture I have to what ever I said.
Joe Absher
The question is baited by the inaccurate use of “murder.”
But it I’d say it kind of depends on the situation doesn’t it. Sometimes we fight others times we suffer evil trusting God that good may come. If you are the only one standing between a killer and a child it would be your duty to protect them to the best of your ability. If it’s your life alone and it’s your duty to lay it down say for Christ or justice that’s different.
Varnel Watson
what term would you use that is more Biblical?
Joe Absher
I’m talking about the question as it is in English
Varnel Watson
and be it HOW is the rev. verse pointed out by Isara Mo applicable in any way? Murder is murder right?
Isara Mo
Joe Absher
Well.said.
There are real.situations when praying for your ” enemies” might not work out well for you and your family but proactive action….will.
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo I still don’t find a NT verse for it
I find plenty against it
What did Jesus say to Peter when he pulled a knife for defense?
Joe Absher
What do you think Jesus said 🙂
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo what IRL situation would make you murder someone? I read your verse from Revelation and there’s nothing there
Isara Mo
Troy Day
If a person puts a gun to your head and tell you to renounce your faith and you manage to counter him with a swift knife stuck to the jugular and kill him will it be sinful?
If you find your wife with another man in a real real.situation …in the sanctuary of your bedroom i guess because you are full of the spirit, because you have the fruit of temperance you will go on your knees and begin to pray for them..isnt ?
Why do govts have armies?
Primary reason is self defence…and in the course of self defence kill…for others.
And many are christians too…
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo Why do you ask my opinion? It dont matter It ONLY matters what the Bible tells us to do – and what does the Bible tell us to do in your scenario? What did JESUS tell Peter when he pulled a swift knife stuck to the jugular?
Isara Mo
Troy Day
No need of an argument about this.
The great great grandchildren of Abraham and David dont lay down weapons when attacked by Hamas: they hit back swift..
The scriptures had to be fulfilled for Jesus to die on the cross do the Peter case citing is a nonety..
Those who live by the SWORD is different from those who protect themselves by the SWORD..
I believe not every American gun owner lives by the gun but most if not all protect themselves by the gun..
Self defence is a means to survival…
Troy I dont own a gun and had never owned one in my life nor intend to own one: but I have a matchetee with me which I have never used.
But if a burglar bursts into my house I will swiftly use it…
Self defense..
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo what argument? – I dont see not even one to defend such stance in the NT – do you?
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day Revelation 19:11 –21 is Jesus’ response to murderers of Christians and Jews during the great tribulation.
# Killed during 300 years of Christian crusades
1 million
# killed during 1400 years of Muslim jihad
270 million
It seems we have a long way to go to merely even the score!
Varnel Watson
Neil Steven Lawrence so what you are saying basically IS that we should NOT respond to murder but wait for JESUS and Rev 19 – that sounds like proper interpretation
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day we obviously must wait for Jesus to bring final judgment. But in the meantime we do not have to be doormats for the devil and his children. Scripture allows us to fight back in order to defend ourselves. Also we can decide to suffer for the sake of the gospel when necessary. Remember this is a battle and all options are on the table depending on the situation. Definitely Christians are historically and even today in the postmodern world more passive and pacifist. But this does not preclude our freedom to defend ourselves and our families and our nations.
Varnel Watson
Neil Steven Lawrence so no murder allowed?