In the last few days a dear and close brother…

Posted by Grover Katzmarek Sr in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

In the last few days a dear and close brother of about four decades one whom I have up most confidence told me he doesn’t believe in a b bodily resurrection. Just wanted to see others thoughts on this subject

24 Comments

  • Reply December 26, 2017

    Randy Buchanan

    According to Paul, he would not be a Christian.

  • Reply December 26, 2017

    Dan Irving

    If there is no resurrection, Christ has not been raised. (I Cor. 15:15)

  • Reply December 26, 2017

    James L Alldredge

    There is a terrestrial body and a spiritual body, what goes in the ground is the seed, what will come out will be as radically different from our earthly bodies as the fruit is from the root, but it will be a body fit for our new environment

  • Reply December 26, 2017

    Tim Anderson

    Run, he has become an Apostate unless he refutes that belief.

    “Apostates are those who fall away from the true faith, abandoning what they formerly professed to believe. The term describes those whose beliefs are so deficient as to place them outside the pale of true Christianity.”

  • Reply December 26, 2017

    Bill Terrell

    You stated your brother doesn’t believe in bodily resurrection,I have a couple of questions,does he believe in Jesus?Does he believe Jesus was the first born from the dead?does he believe the rapture? God is able to do all things if your brother is confuse about a doctrinal issue I believe God is able to get him where he needs to be I will be praying for him.

  • Reply December 26, 2017

    Nathan Ridgeway

    Your friend is a Saducee. They did not believe in the resurrection either … and so they were Sad You See!

  • Reply December 26, 2017

    Grover Katzmarek Sr

    This it seems to me on my research he is leaning to the pretestist tjought

  • Reply December 27, 2017

    Jerome Herrick Weymouth

    The Cults like Jehovah Witnesses and the Mormons deny the trinity, deny the deity, and deny the bodily Resurrection in the Lord Jesus Christ therefore if he denies a bodily Resurrection then basically is an apostate.

  • Reply December 28, 2017

    Walter Polasik

    Well, I read the above comments and think they were all thoughtful. At the end of the day you have to ask, regarding the disbelief, “Why?” Is it on a (misperceived) BIBLICAL basis (as in the case of the JW’s and their interpretation of I Peter 3:19

  • Reply December 28, 2017

    Walter Polasik

    I’m sorry, 1 Peter 3:18. . .

  • Reply December 28, 2017

    Dan Irving

    Yes. Faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is such an intrinsic component of our redemption. Our very Justification depends upon it. He was, “DELIVERED FOR OUR OFFENSES AND RAISED AGAIN FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION.” (Rom. 4:25) The resurrection of Christ is also intrinsic to our Sanctification, “LIKE WAS CHRIST WAS RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD . . EVEN ALSO WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.” (Rom. 6:4). Therefore, neither can WE be raised absent faith in the First Resurrection, that of the Lord Jesus Christ.

  • Reply December 28, 2017

    Walter Polasik

    If not on that basis then possibly on that of plain incredulity itself? Atheism?

  • Reply December 28, 2017

    Bill Stockham

    “I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED IMPERISHABLE, AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED.” (1 Corinthians 15:50-52)

  • Reply December 28, 2017

    Grover Katzmarek Sr

    No he’s not saying about Christs bodily resurrection, he definitely believes that. But our bodily resurrection. I think he’s getting by old time theologians I have read after who believes that Christ was on a c loud overlooking Jerusalem on 70 A. D. I think they get that from a prophecy in Matthew 24 where Christ said that they that had pierced Him would see Him.
    That this is without biblical reference in my opinion, as much as when one attempts to spiritualize away scripture, but again that is in my opinion.

    But to say he’s not a Christian is not right because we all believe things that others may not.

  • Reply December 28, 2017

    Jerome Herrick Weymouth

    The late professor dr. Walter Martin gave us these three points. That they denied a trinity,and then they deny the deity, and then they deny the bodily Resurrection. He said that this is a main test to see if you are in a cult or not. And I agree with him! I’ve held to that view and I teach that view, that if you’re denying these three things you’re really not a Christian. You have what I call head knowledge religion. And there’s no evidence of new birth in your heart because of you deny these things. How could you say that you’ve been born again?

  • Reply December 28, 2017

    Dan Irving

    I would say (given I Cor. 15:15), that to deny the bodily resurrection of the church is NOT consistent with the faith, and is assuredly heresy. Jerome Herrick Weymouth, good comment. The way I perceive things, there are 3 truths re: Jesus Christ which are essential: 1). His life, death, and resurrection. But there are 3 corresponding truths for the church:. 1). Our JUSTIFICATION (the atonement), 2) our SANCTIFICATION (holiness thereby), and GLORIFICATION (our bodily resurrection.)

  • Reply December 28, 2017

    Grover Katzmarek Sr

    Dan Irving I personally agree wholeheartedly with you on those three beliefs.

    I did email him what I believe to be the truth, with supporting theologians, Elements of Divinity by Ralston, and a couple of others.

    He and I will sit down and discuss this issue before my recovering is done from a triple bypass heart surgery

  • Reply December 28, 2017

    Dan Irving

    A friend, you are. ?

  • Reply December 29, 2017

    David Lewayne Porter

    Jesus in His human body, yes indeed.
    And yet Jesus entered a room that was shut up, locked tight.
    (The fact is, we don’t know what we are going to appear as).
    John 20:19, verse 26 makes it more clear.

    We need to remember the account of the road to Emmaus (Jesus’ identity was hidden/concealed from them until the breaking of the bread, at which point He was suddenly just (gone) not there Luke 24.
    – yet again Philip Acts 8:39 disappeared instantly in his human form.
    (It will not be as or happen the way any of us think it will, because we do not have that knowledge at this time: but it will happen none the less).

    There will be a fleshly bodily resurrection – because it is in that moment we are changed “in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye”.
    There is no change without including the fleshly bodily resurrection, that is where it begins. That is where the change starts.

  • Reply December 29, 2017

    Jerome Herrick Weymouth

    Jesus forever in a glorious flesh and bone body. Empty of blood because He gave all His blood for us. And He can pass through walls, and barriers any object. Nothing hinders Him. I laff at folks who says He got to change shapes to pass thru walls…..and why do I laff? Because He is God and He don’t have to change to pass through anything…”Jesus is God and He can do anything He wants!!!”

  • Reply December 29, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    As Dan Irving has already mentioned many but well worth repeating, a growing number of post-mil Christians now do not believe in physical going to heaven or that Christ must return physically to reign in His Millenial Kingdom on Earth. Ap. John ascribes such claims to the spirit of anti-Christ – the ones who denies that Christ came in flesh both in the incarnation and His resurrection and return

  • Reply December 29, 2017

    Street Preacherz

    I’ve know good christian men. That have went off the “rails” at the end of their life. A long life loving God, genuinely serving His people and calling on Jesus the Saviour.
    But with age certain ailments hindered their capacity to understand some things they held dear their whole life.
    For my part I’m in no hurry to damn anyone. I understand there are standards. Bedrock foundational truth. Blaspheming the Holy Ghost denying the blood of Jesus Christ atoning power. But there are more men maybe that believe all the right things, and say all the right things, and will be damned in the end. They have no remorse. Their heart is hard and cold.
    Mr Grover Katzmarek Sr I pray your friend will snap out of it. I hope so. But I pray also the door remains open and the Lord use you to build that bridge and give you a steady hand. Wisdom grace. It’s always nice when friends stick by you when you go off the rails. Those are real friends.

  • Reply December 29, 2017

    David Lewayne Porter

    Jerome Herrick Weymouth
    Yes, He is God.
    And He is the one that had the writers inform us of a bodily resurrection and a change in that body seeing that flesh and blood will not enter there (flesh and blood can’t inherit the Kingdom of Heaven).
    We will be as Adam and Eve were before their failure, not in bodies as we now have.
    These current bodies are living out the fulfillment of “in the day that you partake of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall die” – actual translation “in dying you shall die”. These dying bodies will die, then be resurrected and changed.
    It is appointed once for man to die and then the judgement.
    It has been pointed out already that 1 Corinthians 15:53-54
    For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    So I laff (laugh) at some things also.

  • Reply December 29, 2017

    Grover Katzmarek Sr

    This is one verse that gets me excited. To think of that day when we shall understand all things perfectly, not get tired and need sleep, to be able to sit with Paul, Peter or john

    And of course worshipping at Christ feet oh what a day that shall be.

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