Click to join the conversation with over 500,000 Pentecostal believers and scholars
Click to get our FREE MOBILE APP and stay connected
| PentecostalTheology.com
We start with roughly 8 billion population
Revelation 6:8 KJV “And I looked, and behold a pale horse. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.”
8 bil : 4 = 2 billion dead
6 billion left alive after Rev. 6
Rev. 9:15-18 another 1/3 of the world’s population will be dead
6 bil : 3 = 2 billion dead
4 billion left alive after Rev. 9
4 bil out of the original 8 bil is 50%
The odds that anyone would survive the Great Tribulation are 50:50 or even less…
Anonymous
Multitudes, and two thirds of ethnic national Israel in her time of Jacob’s trouble.
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess good question for Brett Dobbs Link Hudson Gary Micheal Epping who are planning to stay here We start with roughly 8 billion population
Revelation 6:8 KJV “And I looked, and behold a pale horse. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.”
8 bil : 4 = 2 billion dead
6 billion left alive after Rev. 6
Rev. 9:15-18 another 1/3 of the world’s population will be dead
6 bil : 3 = 2 billion dead
4 billion left alive after Rev. 9
4 bil out of the original 8 bil is 50%
The odds that anyone would survive the Great Tribulation are 50:50 or even less…
Anonymous
Troy Day what if the starting number is cloaer to 20 billion? Or 1? Doesn’t affect percentages only the final number
Anonymous
Link Hudson do the calculation – You always end up with the same fraction from Revelation … Just write an equation and see
Anonymous
Troy Day is pretty much 100% (rounded up) of all people being dead who aren’t in the generation that goes through the tribulation…. before the tribulation starts… evidence for some sort of position on the Millennium or the rapture?
Anonymous
Link Hudson thatS the point – it is NOT 100% therefore uNeed pre-trib
Anonymous
Troy Day we unneed it. There is no need for pretrib.
All people who die before tge tribulation will die…so would that be evidence for amil. People dying isn’t evidence for an additional return of Christ that is not mentioned in the Bible.
Anonymous
Link Hudson well there is ppl who believe There is no need for pretrib only because they experience the mazohistic urge to love on the antiChrist Neil Steven Lawrence Terry Wiles Michael Chauncey there is really NO other logical reason for ppl to stay here under the wrath Ricky Grimsley
Anonymous
Troy Day lol
Anonymous
Troy Day
Since we are talking about percentages and numbers, it seems that the post-trib people are very bad at MATH.
They also don’t feel it’s very important to “watch and pray,“ NOR do they care about when the “day or hour“ will happen. So I guess they’re also bad at telling TIME. 
Post-trib also don’t care about “keeping their garments white“ – since they figure they have as much as 7 more years to get things right… so I guess they don’t really care about HOLINESS either? 
So let’s SUM up: math, time, purity – are all on the back burner for Postribbers.
And since none of these scriptural phrases make any sense, unless the Rapture is Pre-TRIB – that means, Postribbers better get preppin’ ! 
Anonymous
Troy Day one logical reason. The rapture occurs at the parousia of Christ not seven years before it. See I Thessalonians 4.
Anonymous
I Thessalonians 4 speaks plainly rapture VS parousia – 2 separate events. How many years in this group and Link Hudson still cannot a SINGLE evidence to prove his fake post trib theory Not a SINGLE verse !
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess who are being glorfied and who are being destroyed in this Great Tribulation?
“This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power,”
2 Thessalonians 1:5-11
Anonymous
When the great tribulation begins, the goal isn’t to survive. The goal is to remain in the faith until the end. Whether the end is your own life, or the end is being alive and remaining until his appearing.
The goal is to stand fast in the faith. It’s that simple.
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs how are you planning to do that?
what measures have you taken to prepare?
have you been thinking of your children under the Trib?
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs that’s good preaching.
Pre-trib believers have decided to stand fast before the Rapture so they won’t have to stand fast during the Great Tribulation. 
Like the commercial back in the 70s about car parts: “you can pay me now, or you can pay me later.“
One is definitely more expensive than the other! 
Anonymous
Troy Day what did the early church do with their children when they were being persecuted?
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs by the antiChrsit? – do tell
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence I didn’t know there was a choice.
Anonymous
Troy Day Nero was a antiChrist. There’s been many of those of the spirit of antiChrist. Regional or local persecutions. Was all considered to be tribulation.
Great tribulation is basically the same thing except that it is great because the worldwide church will be under great tribulation.
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs of course, some of the discussion is being “facetious“
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs naaah You aint got a clue what the antiChrist is
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs I just come by the group today to answer your wonderful question
what did the early church do with their children when they were being persecuted?
ANSWER -they certainly did not fire up the smoke machines and dimmed the lights down YES Duane L Burgess Philip Williams Neil Steven Lawrence the early church went through SOME tribulation NOT the GREAT ONE though
yes some churches are well on passing through tribs. here on earth
but I challenge Brett Dobbs to go through ANY trib. with the current N. American church
ppl here would rather build a Walmart than the wall like Nehemiah
children are already hooked on virtual VR glass video games and drugs
pass the GREAT TRIBULATION with such church if you can
you will regret trying it as Melvin Harter already has told us
Anonymous
Troy Day so the Great Tribulation is worse than being burned on crosses so as to provide lanterns for Nero’s dinner party.
Anonymous
YES Philip Williams Brett Dobbs the Great Tribulation is worse than being burned on crosses as Duane L Burgess has already stated JUST read the Book of Rev. – everything there is very and specifically detailed
Anonymous
Philip Williams yes both the volume and the severity will be greater. 
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence is it punishment, purgatory, or just pure Hell?
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence do the 144,00 experience these same tortures?
Anonymous
Philip Williams Mat.24:21 “For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.” I think Jesus’ words here are pretty straight forward….
Anonymous
Philip Williams The Bible clearly states: 144,000 are 12,000 Jewish believers in Jesus (from each of the 12 Tribes) who are extremely devout, who preach during the Great Tribulation. I believe: they will also suffer just as Paul and Jesus’ NT disciples suffered martyrdom.
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence so you don’t see all those mothers cooking and eating their children in AD70 as not being all that bad?
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence do they convert to Christianity due to their suffering? Did any of those experiencing the Holocaust convert to Christianity?
Anonymous
Troy Day being beheaded is worse then being burned to death?
Or is it not worse in the torture aspect of it but it is worse in the multitude of global sense?
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence does the Bible say the 144,000 will be preaching? And does it say that they will suffer? Show me please.
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs and how are they going to find 144,000 Jewish virgins?
Anonymous
Philip Williams you’ll have to ask Jesus about that in prayer, because the Bible clearly says that fact! 
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs
Rev. 7:4 “those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.” They were sealed for a purpose, not just to look pretty!!!!!! That purpose would most definitely be to represent the King. This implies preaching the Gospel.
Rev. 14:4 “They follow the Lamb wherever he goes.” This implies they do what ever the Lamb would do on earth. This means preaching the Gospel.
Anyone who preaches the gospel during the great tribulation will suffer. 
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence i can see 144,000 among those of the Apostolic Church fulfilling these things which were shortly to take place. But those who lost their heads believed in Jesus.
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence I somewhat agree. But only because the attributes of the 144,000 has the exact same attributes as the church. So is it possible the 144,000 is just symbolic of a church representation?
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs none of this really matters…
for Philip Williams dont plan to be beheaded or crucified
heS just irresponsibly spreading eschatology of his flesh
NOT for a moment thinking or hearing What the SPIRIT is saying to the churches SO going through trib. is just talk – NOT the BIBLE
Anonymous
Philip Williams The listing of the 144,000 Jewish blameless virgin preachers is included in the context of other believers who overcame in the end times.
Anonymous
Troy Day I want you to tell me the purpose of your Great Trib. Is it punishment, purgatory? Or wrath of God? If these are believers, what about the wicked?
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence what about overcoming now? How do we do that?
Anonymous
Philip Williams We must obey God’s word/will in the Scriptures. This leads to purity of motive (heart), maturity of Christ’s character in us, and an urgency to share the Gospel with all people/nations (ta ethne). Doing this is mutually exclusive to sin. Thus – we will be over-comers. Furthermore, trying be an overcomer without the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is ‘doin’ it the hard way.’
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence what’s the purpose of the tribulation?
Anonymous
Philip Williams The purpose of the Great Tribulation is to:
1. exhaust mankind’s demonic inspired failures
2. usher in the Prince of Peace’s 1000-Year Reign on this fallen earth
3. Cause hundreds of millions of nominal Christians and unbelievers to come to their senses and accept Jesus as their savior.
4. So ultimately it is Yahweh’s mercy to cause the most people in history, during the time in human history when the population is the highest, to enter the Kingdom.
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence
Are you saying that the wrath of God is the same as the discipline of God? When does God pour out his wrath on the wicked to destroy or cast them into outer darkness where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth?
Anonymous
Troy Day how many eyes does the AntiChrist have?
Anonymous
Philip Williams
Yes, of course there is wrath from God against the antichrist kingdom and the rebellion of man during the great tribulation. But typically people focus on that and they miss the other points I was making.
There will be wrath when Jesus comes and slaughters several hundred million rebellious soldiers at the battle of Armageddon and causes an earthquake like the world has never seen.
But the wrath of God happens every time, a sinner dies and goes to hell. The final event of this wrath is Win sinners are taken out of hell and processed through a “life review” before the Great White Throne Judgment. After this judgment, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire, where they will remain forever. (Rev.20:15)
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence let’s unpack! Specifically the Great Tribulation. It seems that suffering saints will not be harmed but glorified on that great day! Explain
“This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power,”
2 Thessalonians 1:5-11
Anonymous
Philip Williams
Sooooo…🤷🏻♂️
Suffering was happening to the Saints in all ages and it is happening today and it will happen during the 7-year Great Tribulation. 
The fact that Christ will alleviate the suffering of some of the Saints who are left at the moment of the second coming, does not preclude the fact that saints will have to suffer during the entire 7- year great tribulation, nor does it preclude the FACTS of the pre-TRIB Rapture. 
The Saints, who suffer during the Great Tribulation, are the ones who come to faith – partially because they missed the Rapture! 
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence that so contradicts this passage!
Anonymous
Philip Williams The meaning of words and phrases like “soon, at hand, and shortly” has been lost in an entire generation of Believers.
Anonymous
Dan Anthony you cannot be right here Sir!
Anonymous
John Mushenhouse our friend Dan Anthony stated that
The entirety of John 14 is about the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Verses 1-3 included
he is NOT far from the truth of course for a TRINITARIAN believer which he is NOT
bad news is lots of oneness folk will be surprised by the satanic trinity during the GReat Trib. How is Brett Dobbs going to survive it we do not yet know BUT listening to Philip Williams who is neither theologian nor eschatologist is not a great start 🙂
Anonymous
Troy Day I am a Pentecostal who trusts Mark 16. Not afierd of the Great Tribulation.
Anonymous
Troy Day I probably won’t survive the great tribulation if it does begin in my lifetime. But like I said many times before, the goal isn’t to survive but to endure or remain in the faith.
It’s a matter of the heart and where one stands in their faith in Jesus Christ.
“If we deny him, he will deny us to the Father.”
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs just spoke with a brethren from a persecuted church – before coming here from another country They survived communism there which Philip Williams promotes here in the USA but Henry Volk dont buy it @ all. And I asked him, bro *** how did you go through the communist Tribulation for so many years with your church – he responded => the church we had then has nothing to do with the church here today. There you have it … John Mushenhouse Duane L Burgess Neil Steven Lawrence
Anonymous
Troy Day that’s Brother Luke who has been promoting communism here in the USA from the time the Pilgrims arrived with their Geneva and King James Bibles.