Timothy Carter | PentecostalTheology.com
Genesis chapter 6
Those who believe in theory or something similar to it that actual spiritual beings had sexual intercourse and got human women pregnant who then gave birth to something then you probably believe movies like Rosemary’s Baby are films of documentary instead of make believe. Please help me understand what biblical grounds you have for believing what is not in the Bible.
Charles Page [11/14/2015 5:45 PM] You assume there are people who don’t believe what the Bible says in this discussion group. The sons of God were NOT angels; they were angels who unlawfully took upon themselves human forms – like those good angels did who came to visit Lot. Those sons of God had great liberty in marrying the daughters of men. “Sons of God” indicate their non-human origin. Daughters of men” indicate the HUMAN origin. Sons of God – spirit beings that unlawfully taken flesh upon themselves – brought DESTRUCTION. The Son of God – the eternal Word made flesh in the will of God – brought redemption.
David Lewayne Porter [11/14/2015 7:30 PM]
Timothy Carter some believe they were the fallen angels cast out of heaven and their union with human females produced super human offspring (those of Roman and Greek mythology – the Bible says “men of renoun”). Some back this up because of what Peter says in 2 Peter 2:4 “For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;” thinking that he referenced a special or unique sin that was over and above what the rest of the fallen spirits had done. In any cast it is a stretch and we do not nor can we know for sure. Concentrate on this instead, “1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 1 Timothy 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
Stick to what we have been told for sure. There are things in history God has concealed that He does not want us to know completely at this time in human existence.
Timothy Carter [11/14/2015 7:54 PM]
Brother David Lewayne Porter if this is a big IF these people you refer to are correct in their theory that the legends of Greek mythology is true therefore the Roman mythology gods must also be true. Maybe then the Egyptian gods are true. We actually see the Egyptian gods in the Bible. This is one of the reasons we have the 10 commandments beginning with the statement of God being one God. God is not designed the Trinity like the one that people are confused about. He is denying the heathen gods with the little G.
These gods that Pharaoh worshipped the god of Baile, the god of King Nebuchadnezzar, the god of Jezebel, and the list goes on because God killed all of the Canaanites and all the other Ites.
If these gods where angels that left heaven to come down here to be worshipped and have sex with humans then God killed them because they were horny?
Also who is Homer the author of The Iliad and the Odyssey. Is he anonymous apostle to that world? We have the Apostle Paul they have the apostle Homer?
John Conger [11/14/2015 8:36 PM]
For what the bible does not say? It says it pretty plain. If you choose to believe something different that’s up to you but why disparage others for believing different? Do I make fun of you for your view which I consider ignorant?
David Lewayne Porter [11/14/2015 9:01 PM]
John Conger Disparaging others. I was answering Timothy Carter’s question. I don’t see where anyone was out of the way with stating their views, just because they chose to disagree. As far as what the Bible did not say “John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen”. So for considering other views ignorant (thank you immensely if that was directed at me) I consider it a high and respected honor. And yes Charles Page I am also COG ( 😉 ) Paul said Phil 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
So in and with understanding, I thank you Pastor Rev Bishop David Lewayne Porter
John Conger [11/14/2015 9:07 PM]
What? David Lewayne Porter was not talking to you, I was addressing the original post. It was a rude. I enjoy back and forth with deep thinkers but too many times when someone can’t win an argument they attack the other person. I was hoping this group wasn’t like that
Timothy Carter [11/14/2015 10:04 PM]
John Conger Why do you say this is rude?
I am NOT attacking you personally. I am asking a legitimate question.
I honestly don’t understand.
I have studied this topic on and off for years. I have an appointment with an Old Testament scholar next week who is going to help me understand this.
I am 100% sincere I am seeking answers.
I understand now that I did not ask my question the way that you would have asked your question.
But it is not intended to be aggressive or rude to anyone. I really want to understand.
My whole reason for being here is to learn not to argue.
You said when someone can not win the argument they attack the other person. First of all I’m not in an argument therefore there is no one for me to attack.
I am in a theological discussion with my friends.
John Conger [11/14/2015 10:09 PM]
Why do I say this is rude? “Then you probably believe movies like rosemary ‘ baby are films of documentary instead of make believe”? Don’t play dumb. I doubt there’s any explanation you haven’t heard. It’s pretty simple. The sons of God is scripture refers to angels, just like in job. If you choose to not to believe it because it’s too fanciful for you then fine. You can’t explain how it means one thing in Gen but something different in job other than you don’t like it.
Timothy Carter [11/14/2015 10:19 PM]
Play dumb? I’m not playing dumb. What in the world are you talking about I have two PhDs and working on my third doctorate. This doctrine is in Global Pentecostal education.
I have no desire to pretend to be dumb.
Yes I have heard various views. I just admitted that.
That’s what I’m asking for help with.
These views sound like fantasy to me instead of being in line with God’s Word. They sound like fantasy just like RR Tolkien and like Rosemary’s Baby. There’s another movie called Devil’s Advocate week Kana Reeves. Reeves is the devil’s son. The devil had sex with his mother who is 100% human she gave birth to half devil half man child.
This sounds like a fantasy fanfiction from some of these fairytales coming off of Genesis chapter 6.
I am NOT trying to play dumb I am admitting that I am confused because of what’s going on with these types of marketing movies and other propagandas.
I I hope that you guys can help me to understand.
If this DaKe line of thinking is correct then it will be proven by the Word. I have never seen any proof of it.
David Lewayne Porter [11/14/2015 10:25 PM]
I did not say they were not angels, I said they were fallen angels, go back and read my post John Conger. The offspring of the angels of God were the men of renoun Gen 6:2-4 and giants.
So as far as being rude, I could comment to the effect that you did not actually read my post, or maybe you need to learn how to understand while reading. Again go re-read my post that you misquoted and disagree with. I did not say what you say I said.
John Conger [11/14/2015 10:31 PM]
David Lewayne Porter please stop making this about you. Timothy Carter you were playing dumb in pretending you didn’t know what I said was rude. I’m sure everyone here is much smarter than me but I’ve debated a darwinist college professor on the radio, jehovah witness elders and many many others and almost all them could stay on topic better than most on this page.
David Lewayne Porter [11/14/2015 10:46 PM]
Timothy Carter, did my posts help you any?
Timothy Carter [11/14/2015 11:57 PM]
Brother John Conger
1 Peter 3:15New International Version (NIV)
15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
It is unfortunate that you are offended during a theological discussion. All of us should be prepared to give an answer why we believe what we do.
We should give this answer with respect. I am asking with respect. I am NOT pretending that I don’t know. I am honestly stating the fact that I do not know.
I am asking this group of my friends and others who are willing to dialogue with me politely to explain to me how DaKe ‘s theory and others like his have support throughout the rest of the Bible.
Because I do not see biblical support for this theory.
I am simply being honest.
If those who support DaKe and the rosemary theory can show me in God’s Word where these types of things actually happen I want to know.
We are to dialogue about these things with respect for one another.
The rosemary theory is a movie to tell that testimony just as much as the left behind movies tell Christian version of that belief for those people who happen to believe that we should be more interested in the seven years after the rapture then we should be in evangelism today.
I’m not making fun of anyone I am trying total.
Please don’t attack me because you don’t understand my learning style.
John Conger [11/15/2015 12:16 AM]
Telling someone that they probably believe it’s a documentary??? Ause you disagree with something they believe? That’s a learning style????? Please. That’s ridiculous
Ricky Grimsley [11/15/2015 1:02 AM]
How much more info do you need other than what the bible actually says. The sons of god are obviously angels. Well maybe the sons of seth get translated every so often to present themselves to god and satan comes to hang out too?
Timothy Carter [11/15/2015 1:16 AM]
Ricky Grimsley there are various opinions what the phrase ” sons of God” means for example I am the Son of God because Jesus is the firstborn of many brethren. You are a son of God Charles Page John Ruffle Rick Jr Wadholm Biblica and so on we’re all sons of God
Ricky Grimsley [11/15/2015 1:19 AM]
Son of god always refers to a direct creation of god. Either jesus, angel, adam or new testament saint.
Timothy Carter [11/15/2015 1:23 AM]
Then of course there is the theory that sons of God means anyone who is created this falls in line with CS Lewis’s theory he says son of Adam which basically means son of God mean those who are created.
This passage is not as cut and dry as some people want to pretend that it is.
Where at in the rest of the Bible is it supported? Why is it that DaKe and others like him who write about this who right along the same lines as he does have more to say about this that’s not in the Bible then they do about the verses that are actually there?
Yes we can see the verses that are there but why do people try to read between the lines so much?
Why can’t we look at the text for what it is and identify what the Bible says this is instead of trying to look at popular commentaries first?
I believe there were giants such as Goliath however there is discrepancy as to whether or not Nephilim means really tall people such as Goliath. This is not my original idea there are professional scholars publishing commentaries who say that Nephilim does not mean overgrown people like Goliath. ( they state their wording better than I have)
Timothy Carter [11/15/2015 1:25 AM]
Ricky Grimsley Jesus is not a creation Jesus is the Creator John chapter 1
Ricky Grimsley [11/15/2015 1:33 AM]
This is something you dont see if you dont want too i guess. There are so many Scriptures that refer to giants directly. Not to mention the rephaim (the dead) ones that the king james probably should have capitalized. The angel theory answers questions for me that sethite theory leaves open. Either you believe what the bible says or not. The bible mentions unicorns like 9times more than the trinity but you probably dont have a problem with that.
Timothy Carter [11/15/2015 2:19 AM]
When the word giant is used in the English the Hebrew word Nephilim is not always used. Nephilim is only used twice. It is not used in the story of David and Goliath. Please explain this.
Timothy Carter [11/15/2015 2:21 AM]
I want to know explanations as to why if the Bible plainly states it as you say Ricky Grimsley then why are there so many different opinions?
Here are the four most popular.
Many respected Christians have commented on this topic over the years, and their work is to be highly regarded. This discussion is not to impugn their work in any way, but to build on it in iron-sharpening-iron fashion. In fact, in writing this, their research has provided great insights into what I now personally believe about the sons of God and the Nephilim, and I commend them for their work.
As a ministry, Answers in Genesis does not officially take a specific stand regarding these four major views. It is not crucial to biblical authority, since each side in this debate, for the most part, is using the Bible as authoritative to make their case.
John Conger please notice these scholars are not making fun of one another.
Ricky Grimsley [11/15/2015 3:29 AM]
There are respected scholars that are cessationists too but we dont agree with them.
Ricky Grimsley [11/15/2015 3:31 AM]
There are many opinions because someone is right and the others are wrong. Look how religions there are.