In 1 John 4:2b, what does John mean by ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα? “In flesh [and blood]” or “among humans/men”? And why is this such an important issue?
Please provide primary source(s) for any historical references.
By the way, my own view is that “John” wrote his letter to correct various misrepresentations of Jesus, such as saying that he was divine or an angel (the message of the antichrists) which he considered idolatry.
σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ (Hom.+; ‘flesh’). ① the material that covers the bones
of a human or animal body, flesh lit. 1 Cor 15:39abcd; Hv 3, 10, 4; 3,
12, 1. The pl. (which denotes flesh in the mass [Lucian, Dial. Mort.
10, 5], whereas the sing. rather denotes the substance.—Herodas 4, 61;
Gen 40:19; 1 Km 17:44; 4 Km 9:36; PsSol 4:19; TestJob 13:5; Philo;
Jos., Ant. 12, 211; Just., A I, 26, 7; Mel., P. 52, 383; Ath. 34, 2)
Lk 24:39 v.l.; Rv 19:18, 21 (4 [6] Esdr [POxy 1010, 16] cannibalism
out of hunger, sim. Mel., P. 52, 383; Quint. Smyrn. 11, 245: the
σάρκες of the slain are food for the birds) B 10:4; metaph. Rv 17:16.
It decays 1 Cl 25:3; cp. Ac 2:31 (cp. 2a below). Normally gives forth
an evil odor when burned MPol 15:2. W. bones (s. ὀστέον) 1 Cl 6:3 (Gen
2:23); Lk 24:39; Eph 5:30 v.l. (metaph.). Paul speaks of his illness
as a σκόλοψ τῇ σαρκί (s. σκόλοψ) 2 Cor 12:7. ἡ ἐν σαρκὶ περιτομή the
physical circumcision (cp. Just., D. 10, 1 al.) Ro 2:28; cp. Eph
2:11b; Col 2:13 (ἀκροβυστία 2); Gal 6:13 (ἡ σάρξ=the flesh that is
circumcised); B 9:4. Metaph.: the corrosion on the precious metals of
the rich φάγεται τὰς σάρκας ὑμῶν ὡς πῦρ Js 5:3.—Ign. describes the
elements of the Eucharist as σὰρξ (or αἷμα) Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ IRo 7:3;
IPhld 4; ISm 7:1. Also J 6:51–56 urges that one must eat the flesh
(and drink the blood) of the Human One or Son of Man (Just., A I, 66,
2; s. TPhilips, Die Verheissung der hl. Eucharistie nach Joh. 1922;
Bultmann ad loc.; AWikenhauser ’48, 105f).—His anti-Docetic position
also leads Ign. to use the concept ‘flesh (and blood) of p 915
Christ’ in other contexts as well ITr 8:1; IPhld 5:1.—For Mt 16:17;
Gal 1:16; Eph 6:12; and 1 Cor 15:50 s. 3a. ② the physical body as
functioning entity, body, physical body ⓐ as substance and living
entity (Aeschyl., Sept. 622: opp. νοῦς; Ex 30:32; 4 Km 6:30; TestAbr A
20 p. 103, 6 [Stone p. 54] πάντα τὰ μέλη τῆς σαρκός μου; w. καρδία or
ψυχή Alex. Aphr., An. p. 98, 7–10 Br.; Ps 37:8; 62:2; Eccl 2:3; Ezk
11:19; 44:7 a1.; Jos., Bell. 6, 47, Ant. 19, 325; Ar.15, 7) οὔτε ἡ
σὰρξ αὐτοῦ εἶδεν διαφθοράν Ac 2:31 (but s. 1). W. ψυχή 1 Cl 49:6 (Tat.
13:2 al.). W. καρδία Ac 2:26 (Ps 15:9).—Eph 5:29. ἑόρακαν τὸ πρόσωπόν
μου ἐν σαρκί they have seen me face to face Col 2:1. ἕως ἂν τὸν
χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἴδῃ before he had seen the Messiah in person GJs 24:4
(cp. Lk 2:26). Opp. πνεῦμα (Ath. 31:3; PGM 5, 460 ἐπικαλοῦμαί σε τὸν
κτίσαντα πᾶσαν σάρκα κ. πᾶν πνεῦμα) 1 Cor 5:5; 2 Cor 7:1; Col 2:5; 1
Pt 4:6; Hm 3:1; 10, 2, 6; cp. AcPl Ant 13:17 (=Aa, I 237, 2; s. οἶδα);
also in relation to Christ (though this is disputed) J 6:63; Hs 5, 6,
5–7; cp. 1 Ti 3:16.—ἀσθένεια τῆς σαρκός bodily ailment Gal 4:13; s.
vs. 14. ἀσθενὴς τῇ σαρκί weak in the body Hs 9, 1, 2. ὁ ἀλγῶν σάρκα
the one who is ill in body B 8:6. πάσχειν σαρκί 1 Pt 4:1b. Cp. 2 Cor
7:5. ἡ τῆς σαρκὸς καθαρότης the purity of the body Hb 9:13 (opp.
καθαρίζειν τὴν συνείδησιν vs. 14). σαρκὸς ἀπόθεσις ῥύπου 1 Pt 3:21 (s.
ῥύπος 1). The σάρξ is raised fr. the dead (s. ParJer 6:9; Theoph. Ant.
1, 7 [74, 2]) 1 Cl 26:3; 2 Cl 9:1. ἀνάστασις σαρκός AcPlCor 1:12; 2:24
(σαρκὸς ἀνάστασιν Just., D. 80, 5); cp. ἀναστήσεσθε ἔχοντες ὑγιῆ τὴν
σάρκα AcPlCor 2:32. Of the body of Christ during his earthly ministry
Eph 2:14 (JHart, The Enmity in His Flesh: Exp. 6th ser., 3, 1901,
135–41); Hb 10:20; 1 Pt 3:18; 4:1a; 1J 4:2; 2J 7; B 5:1, 10f; 6:7, 9;
7:5; 12:10; IEph 7:2; Pol 7:1; AcPlCor 2:6b. Married couples form μία
σάρξ (Gen 2:24; s. Ath. 33, 2 τὴν σάρκα πρὸς σάρκα …
κοινωνίαν.—GAicher, Mann u. Weib ein Fleisch: BZ 5, 1907, 159–65) Mt
19:5f; Mk 10:8ab; 1 Cor 6:16; Eph 5:31 (on these passages, TBurkill,
ZNW 62, ’71, 115–20). δικαιώματα σαρκός behind ‘all sorts of
ceremonial washings’ there are regulations that concern the physical
body Hb 9:10.—On ὑποτάγητε τῷ ἐπισκόπῳ ὡς ὁ Χριστὸς τῷ πατρὶ κατὰ
σάρκα IMg 13:2 s. Hdb. ad loc. and MRackl, Die Christologie des hl.
Ignatius v. Ant. 1914, 228.—πνεῦμα δυνάμεως … ὁ θεὸς … κατέπεμψεν εἰς
σάρκα τουτέστιν εἰς τὴν Μαρίαν God sent a powerful spirit (prob. a
ref. to the kind of divine breath that brought the first human being
to life [Gen 2:7]) into flesh, that is, into Mary AcPl Ha 8, 26=BMM
recto 34; s. AcPlCor 1:14. ⓑ as someth. with physical limitations,
life here on earth (ApcEsdr 4:4 p. 28, 3 Tdf. σάρκα ἀνθρωπίνην φορῶ)
θλῖψιν τῇ σαρκὶ ἕξουσιν 1 Cor 7:28. Cp. 2 Cor 4:11; Col 1:24. Of
Christ τὸ σῶμα τῆς σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ his body with its physical limitations
Col 1:22; cp. 2:11 and s. cα below (cp. En 102:5 τὸ σῶμα τῆς σαρκὸς
ὑμῶν; 1QpHab 9:2; Orig., C. Cels. 6, 29, 25).—Of human life: ἀποδημεῖν
τῆς σαρκός MPol 2:2 (s. ἀποδημέω). ἐπιμένειν ἐν τῇ σαρκί Phil 1:24.
ζῆν ἐν σαρκί vs. 22; Gal 2:20. ἐν σ. περιπατεῖν 2 Cor 10:3a. ἐν σ.
τυγχάνειν Dg 5:8a. ὄντος ἔτι ἐν σ. σου AcPlCor 1:6. τὸν ἐπίλοιπον ἐν
σ. χρόνον 1 Pt 4:2. ἡ ἐπιδημία τῆς σαρκὸς ταύτης our sojourn in life
2 Cl 5:5. ἐν τῇ σαρκί in our earthly life 8:2. ⓒ as instrument of
various actions or expressions. α. In Paul’s thought esp., all parts
of the body constitute a totality known as σ. or flesh, which is
dominated by sin to such a degree that wherever flesh is, all forms of
sin are likew. present, and no good thing can live in the σάρξ Ro 7:18
(cp. Philo, Gig. 29 αἴτιον δὲ τῆς ἀνεπιστημοσύνης μέγιστον ἡ σὰρξ καὶ
ἡ πρὸς σάρκα οἰκείωσις; Sextus 317 ἀγαθὸν ἐν σαρκὶ μὴ ἐπιζήτει. The OT
lays no stress on a necessary relationship betw. flesh as a substance,
and sin. But for Epicurus the σάρξ is the bearer of sinful feelings
and desires as well as the means of sensual enjoyment: Ep. in Plut.,
Mor. 135c; 1087bf; 1089e; 1096c αἱ τῆς σαρκὸς ἐπιθυμίαι. Also Diog. L.
10, 145. Likew. Plut. himself: Mor. 101b ταῖς τῆς σαρκὸς ἡδοναῖς;
672e; 688d; 734a; Ps.-Plut., Mor. 107f σαρκὶ καὶ τοῖς πάθεσι ταύτης;
Maximus Tyr. 33, 7a. Cp. 4 Macc 7:18 τὰ τῆς σαρκὸς πάθη; Philo, Deus
Imm. 143 σαρκὸς ἡδονή, Gig. 29; TestJud 19:4; TestZeb 9:7; ApcMos 25
[p. 14, 2 Tdf.] εἰς τὴν ἁμαρτίαν τῆς σαρκός); Ro 6:19; 7:25 (opp.
νοῦς); 8:3a, 4–9 (cp. Persius 2, 63 scelerata pulpa, which
contaminates devotion to deity), 12f; Gal 5:13, 24; Col 2:23; Jd 23;
AcPlCor 2:11, 15; Dg 6:5 (opp. ψυχή, as Plut., Mor. 101b). Opp. τὸ
πνεῦμα Ro 8:4, 5, 6, 9, 13; Gal 3:3; 5:16, 17ab; 6:8ab; J 3:6; B 10:9.
τὸ μὲν πνεῦμα πρόθυμον, ἡ δὲ σὰρξ ἀσθενής (cp. Orig., C. Cels. 2, 25,
8) Mt 26:41; Mk 14:38; Pol 7:2. σὰρξ ἁμαρτίας sinful flesh Ro 8:3b.
ἐπιθυμία (τῆς) σαρκός (cp. Maximus Tyr. 20, 9f σαρκῶν … ἐπιθυμίας) Gal
5:16; 1J 2:16; B 10:9. Pl. Eph 2:3a, cp. b; 2 Pt 2:18; cp. Ro 13:14.
τὰ ἔργα τῆς σαρκός Gal 5:19 (s. Vögtle at πλεονεξία). τὰ θελήματα τῆς
σαρκός Eph 2:3b. ὁ νοῦς τῆς σαρκός Col 2:18. τὸ σῶμα τῆς σαρκός the
body of (sinful) flesh 2:11; cp. 1:22 and s. b above (cp. Sir 23:17
σῶμα σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ; En 102:5 τῷ σώματι τῆς σαρκὸς ὑμῶν). τὰ τῆς σαρκός
what pertains to (sinful) flesh Ro 8:5b. ἐν (τῇ) σαρκὶ εἶναι be in an
unregenerate (and sinful) state Ro 7:5; 8:8f. τὰ ἔθνη ἐν σαρκί Eph
2:11a. κατὰ σάρκα εἶναι Ro 8:5a; ζῆν vs. 12b; 13; Dg 5:8b; περιπατεῖν
Ro 8:4; 2 Cor 10:2; βουλεύεσθαι 1:17; στρατεύεσθαι 10:3b; cp. IRo 8:3
(opp. κατὰ γνώμην θεοῦ). β. source of the sexual urge. The σάρξ is the
source of the sexual urge, without any suggestion of sinfulness
connected w. it ἐκ θελήματος σαρκὸς ἐγεννήθησαν J 1:13. ⓓ as someth.
attractive 2 Pt 2:10 (a Hebraism, cp. Judg 2:12; 3 Km 11:10; Sir
46:10). S. also 3b. ③ one who is or becomes a physical being, living
being with flesh ⓐ of humans person, human being: πᾶσα σάρξ every
person, everyone (LXX; TestAbr B 7 p. 112, 3 [Stone p. 72]; GrBar
4:10; ApcEsdr 7:7; ApcMos 13 [p. 7, 1 Tdf.]; Mel., P. 55, 400: for
כָּל-בָּשָׂר; s. πᾶς 1aα) Lk 3:6 (Is 40:5); J 17:2; Ac 2:17 (Jo 3:1);
1 Pt 1:24 (Is 40:6); 1 Cl 59:3; 64; 2 Cl 7:6; 17:5 (the last two Is
66:24); AcPlCor 2:6a. οὐ πᾶσα σάρξ no person, nobody (En 14:21
end.—W-S. §26, 10a; B-D-F §275, 4; 302, 1; Rob. 752) Mt 24:22; Mk
13:20; Ro 3:20 (cp. Ps 142:2 πᾶς ζῶν); 1 Cor 1:29 (μή); Gal
2:16.—Though σ. in the foll. passages refers to body in its physical
aspect, it cannot be divorced from its conjunction with αἷμα, and the
unit σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα (cp. Sir 17:31; TestAbr B 13 p. 117, 26 [Stone p.
82]; Philo, Quis Div. Rer. Her. 57; Just., D. 135, 6) refers to a
human being in contrast to God and other transcendent beings Mt 16:17;
Gal 1:16; Eph 6:12 (here vice versa, αἷ. καὶ σ.). τὰ παιδία
κεκοινώνηκεν αἵματος καὶ σαρκός the children share mortal nature Hb
2:14, but with suggestion of its frailty, as indicated by the context
with its ref. to death. Because they are the opposites of the divine
nature σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα βασιλείαν θεοῦ κληρονομῆσαι οὐ δύναται 1 Cor
15:50 (JJeremias, NTS 2, ’56, 151–59). For Jd 7 s. b next. Cp. AcPl
Ant 13, 17 (=Aa I 237, 2) σαρκί personally (s. οἶδα 2). ⓑ of
transcendent entities ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο J 1:14 (RSeeberg, Festgabe
AvHarnack dargebracht 1921, 263–81.—Artem. 2, 35 p. 132, 27 ἐὰν
σάρκινοι οἱ θεοὶ φαίνωνται; Synes., Dio 6 p. 45b).—Of flesh other than
human: ὀπίσω σαρκὸς ἑτέρας after another kind of flesh (cp. Judg 2:12
ὀπίσω θεῶν ἑτέρων) i.e. of divine messengers who take on σ. when they
appear to humans (so Windisch et al.; difft. Frame et al. of same-sex
activity) Jd 7. p 916
…④ human/ancestral connection, human/mortal nature, earthly
descent (Did., Gen. 144, 25) Ἀβραὰμ τὸν προπάτορα ἡμῶν κατὰ σάρκα Ro
4:1 (Just., D. 43, 7 al.). οἱ συγγενεῖς μου κατὰ σάρκα 9:3. τοὺς τῆς
σαρκὸς ἡμῶν πατέρας Hb 12:9. τὸν Ἰσραὴλ κατὰ σάρκα the earthly Israel
1 Cor 10:18 (opp. τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ Gal 6:16). Of natural descent
τὰ τέκνα τῆς σαρκός children by natural descent Ro 9:8 (opp. τὰ τέκνα
τῆς ἐπαγγελίας). ὁ μὲν ἐκ τῆς παιδίσκης κατὰ σάρκα γεγέννηται Gal
4:23; cp. vs. 29. μου τὴν σάρκα my compatriots Ro 11:14 (s. Gen
37:27).—Of Christ’s physical nature Ro 8:3c; Hb 5:7. Christ is
descended fr. the patriarchs and fr. David (τὸ) κατὰ σάρκα according
to the human side of his nature, as far as his physical descent is
concerned Ro 1:3 (JDunn, Jesus: Flesh and Spirit [Ro 1:3f], JTS 24,
’73, 40–68); 9:5; 1 Cl 32:2; IEph 20:2. The context of 2 Cor 11:18
includes ancestry as a reason for boasting, but σ. in this pass.
applies as well to other aspects of Paul’s career and therefore
belongs more properly in 5…
⑤ the outward side of life as determined by normal perspectives or
standards, a transf. sense of 1 and 2. Usually w. κατά indicating norm
or standard σοφοὶ κατὰ σάρκα wise (people) according to human
standards 1 Cor 1:26. καυχᾶσθαι κατὰ (τὴν) σάρκα boast of one’s
outward circumstances, i.e. descent, manner of life, etc. (cp. 11:22)
2 Cor 11:18. κατὰ σάρκα Χριστόν Christ (the Messiah) from a human
point of view or as far as externals are concerned 5:16b, cp. a (κατά
B5bβ and 7a; also VWeber, BZ 2, 1904, 178–88; HWindisch, exc. ad loc.;
Rtzst., Mysterienrel.3, 374–76; FPorter, Does Paul Claim to Have Known
the Historical Jesus [2 Cor 5:16]?: JBL 47, 1928, 257–75; RMoxon, CQR
108, 1929, 320–28). οἱ κατὰ σάρκα κύριοι those who, according to human
standards, are masters Eph 6:5; Col 3:22. ὑμεῖς κατὰ τὴν σ. κρίνετε
you judge by outward things, by externals J 8:15. Of the route taken
in one’s earthly life ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ κατὰ σάρκα IRo 9:3.—ἐν σαρκὶ πεποιθέναι
place one’s trust in earthly things or physical advantages Phil 3:3f.
εὐπροσωπῆσαι ἐν σαρκί Gal 6:12. Onesimus is a beloved brother to
Philemon καὶ ἐν σαρκὶ καὶ ἐν κυρίῳ both as a human being (=personally,
in the external relationship betw. master and slave) and as a
Christian Phlm 16. ὑμῶν δὲ ἐν σαρκὶ ἐπισκόπῳ IEph 1:3 (cp. IMg
3:2).—HWindisch, Taufe u. Sünde 1908; EBurton, ICC Gal. 1920, 492–95;
WSchauf, Sarx 1924; WBieder, Auferstehung des Fleisches od. des
Leibes?: TZ 1, ’45, 105–20. W. special ref. to Paul: Ltzm., Hdb. exc.
on Ro 7:14 and 8:11; Lohmeyer (ἁμαρτία 3a); EKäsemann, Leib u. Leib
Christi ’33; RGrant, ATR 22, ’40, 199–203; RBultmann, Theologie des
NTs ’48, 228–49 (Engl. tr. by KGrobel, ’51 I, 227–59); LMarshall,
Challenge of NT Ethics ’47, 267–70; E Schweizer, Die hellenist.
Komponente im NT sarx-Begriff: ZNW 48, ’57, 237–53; two in KStendahl,
The Scrolls and the NT, ’57: KKuhn, 94–113 and WDavies, 157–82;
JPryke, ‘Spirit’ and ‘Flesh’ in Qumran and NT: RevQ 5, ’65, 346–60;
DLys, La chair dans l’AT ’67; ASand, D. Begriff ‘Fleisch’ ’67 (Paul);
RJewett, Paul’s Anthropological Terms ’71, 49–166. On Ign.:
CRichardson, The Christianity of Ign. of Ant. ’35, esp. 49 and 61. S.
also the lit. s.v. πνεῦμα, end.—B. 202. DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW. Spicq.
Sv.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon
of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p.
916). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Varnel Watson
and there you have it Jim Price Philip Williams I rarely say this but it is what it is 🙂 Nelson Banuchi ol. sen. Kennedy just out did Peter Vandever trump pawn warning Joe Absher http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/trump-not-a-defender-of-religious-liberty-but-a-threat.html
Varnel Watson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVflQiNrs6U
CW Sellers
Welcome to the 5 political Drama Queens of US politics; Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Luciano Crime Family, Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Ayanna S. Pressley of Massachusetts and Rashida Tlaib of Michigan What a disgrace to our country! The entire world is again laughing at America as they did when the truth came about Michael Obama and Obama’s birth certificate and Harris being a poor African. Please, America gets it our government if full of fruits, nuts and politicians who don’t know who or what they are, biparts, missing parts and manufactured parts. Tolerance has brought this country to SHAME!
David Asbury
4 Jezebels pray for their salvation
Nelson Banuchi
Just wondering, that these woman are evil (as, it seems, many contend), do Trump supporters argue that justifies Trump’s racist comments against them?
Btw, to tell someone to leave and go back where they came from is, by U.S. Government standards, an example of discrimination: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/453634-federal-guidance-identifying-go-back-to-where-you-came-from-as?fbclid=IwAR3yItITtc1Ls4mEENRDrOv_AQohO_vN7TbKcvJVsBAZqJ49JUTEKicrcCw#.XS-_vpatee4.facebook
Philip Williams
Nelson Banuchi Warning. Don’t get between a dog and a fire hydrant. ?
Philip Williams
Nelson Banuchi Problem is the man lacks grace.
Nelson Banuchi
Philip Williams True, and that’s God’s grace he lacks, in my mind.
Philip Williams
Nelson Banuchi He’s a man of the world. Very much so. But President.
Philip Williams
Nelson Banuchi He just took the Lord’s Name in vain in Greenville, NC tonight. That’s not going to make evangelicals happy, I hope!
Nelson Banuchi
That he’s POTUS, makes no difference to me.
I always refer to him merely as Trump not as President Trump.
Nelson Banuchi
As far as his taking the Lord’s name in vain, they’ll ignore it, say it wasn’t unChristian language, and vote for him anyway.
On a personal note, actually, every time we make a promise and break it we take the Lord’s name in vain, which is kind of scary…
Isara Mo
Philip Williams
Should people honour the man in the President’s office or should they honour the office of the President?
Philip Williams
Isara Mo the latter! Good point!
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher Nelson Banuchi the act may have become dis-interesting after all 🙂 Philip Williams let MB be the judge of that 🙂
Nelson Banuchi
Sometimes, I sincerely wonder if what evangelical Christian conservatives really (if unconsciously) want is a Christian theocracy rather than a democracy… whether they really want a true freedom in this country for people to worship God according to their conscience or do they want a Salem sort of government.
What do you think? Do you ever wonder about that?
Philip Williams
Nelson Banuchi I’ll vote for a theocracy!
Nelson Banuchi
Philip Williams Really? Guess we can burn all the witches and stone all the atheists?
(My next question would be, a theocracy of Calvinists or Arminians, Protestants or Catholics?)
Philip Williams
The secular authorities the world over burned witches back then. They still do in places like Africa. The Massachusetts theocracy was the first in the world to put a stop to that.
Nelson Banuchi
Wonder what would happen if all four women answered back that Republicans hate America. Would conservative Evangelicals say they are judging?
(Hey, what’s good for the geese is good for the gander).
Casius Leonidas
Nelson Banuchi registered democrat?
Nelson Banuchi
Casius Leonidas I was registered GOP for 40 years but switched in 2016 when the party became a lackey for Trump too Independent.
Casius Leonidas
Nelson Banuchi so you voted for Gary Johnson?
Nelson Banuchi
Casius Leonidas No. First, one doesn’t need to vote under the party they registered, and two, I was a registered GOP until a month or two after Trump won the election.
I put another Republican name on the ballot…
Casius Leonidas
Nelson Banuchi so just another never Trumper.
Nelson Banuchi
Casius Leonidas yep… unless he changes his ways…
Varnel Watson
I dont know Nelson Banuchi it may be to 1 of them but if you tell an American born American to go home is OK right 🙂
Nelson Banuchi
Actually, yep, and that’s exactly what Trump did, at least to three of them. Luckily for them, they needn’t to get up money for a plane ticket. They could either drive or taken the red eye to their homes.
Me, if I were a Congressman and Trump told me to leave, I would have taken a paid vacation day off and videos the whole flight home =, letting everyone know that Trump gave me the day off.
Eugene Stiger
More like the 4 mules of the Antichrist.
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi I dont think at THIS POINT US evangelicals know what in the world they are doing Except waiting for 2020 for someone to sweep them off their feet
Philip Williams
Troy Day you think the rapture is next year?
Nelson Banuchi
Philip Williams If Trump wins in 2020, hope so ?
Philip Williams
Nelson Banuchi Coward!
Jesse James Sullivan
Do you think GOD loves America?
Personally I think he loves each one of us.
It’s the evil spirits we create he seeks to destroy…
Nelson Banuchi
to the question, “Do you think GOD loves America?” I would think it’s safe to answer “No”…not unless Christ died for America.
Jesse James Sullivan
Nelson Banuchi metoo. America is a spirit full of confusion and corruption. It’s our hearts that set us apart from these earthly spirits…
Philip Williams
Who would have thunk?
The 4 Apocalypse horses are Phillies.
RichardAnna Boyce
Pentecostals around the world are watching how USA Pentecostals will react to this racial hate speech dividing DSA. ……………… In a moment of unrestrained demagoguery, President Donald Trump presided Wednesday over a crowd chanting “Send her back! Send her back!” about an American Muslim congresswoman who he targeted with racist attacks.
The scenes at a North Carolina rally provided an ugly overture to a 2020 election campaign already soaked in hate. They exemplified the tribal politics and white nationalism that Trump is making clear he plans to ride to reelection, no matter their impact on America’s fragile societal harmony.
The chants of “Send her back!” referred to Somalia-born, American citizen Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, one of four minority lawmakers attacked by Trump over the weekend. The invective from the crowd replaced the “Lock her up!” and “Build the wall!” chants of Trump’s first campaign with a jarring racial refrain that the commander-in-chief, speaking from behind a podium bearing the symbolic presidential seal, made no effort to stop.
Nelson Banuchi
The EEOC federal government guidelines deem saying, “Go back to where you came from,” as an example of discrimination.
In U.S. companies, any employee who behaves as such would almost certainly be fired. Since Trump is under the employ of the U.S. Government that agrees his remarks are discriminatory (if not outright racist), perhaps, he should be fired immediately also.
It would be consistent with federal employment guidelines…
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/453634-federal-guidance-identifying-go-back-to-where-you-came-from-as?fbclid=IwAR209jLBNztTd37xG3ucl_WEXUKgTKBn1lLvc4Hn4YWH6qBQdEYVM2EjLn4#.XS-_vpatee4.facebook
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi I dont think it is example of discrimination when said to an American born American It just means Go home – is hit the road Jack discrimination too?
Philip Williams
Nelson Banuchi You know that guidelines are changed by Executive Orders that can only be issued by the President. But any immigrants who refer to 9/11 as ‘something(!) that happened’ is deserving of American anger and shame on all those who defend this ingrate.
That said, I am much saddened by the Presidents language and by his and the four horseman’s polarization of the electorate.
Philip Williams
RichardAnna Boyce I am saddened by your defense of the ingrate who refers to 9/11 as ‘something that happened.’
What is the cause of such hatred of Americans on your behalf and callous disregard of American lives lost on 9/11?
RichardAnna Boyce
trump completely takes a few words out of context and divides DUS on racial grounds. Trump is a security risk as only dirty russian money can bail him out each time he goes bankrupt, now his wealthy dad has died.
Nelson Banuchi
Troy Day if the guy’s name is Joe, yes…
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams RichardAnna Boyce Nelson Banuchi do you think this was done to take the heat oFF Pence and the border? Is it the medias fault as everyone is now saying?
Philip Williams
Troy Day if you don’t stop posting all these political posts, you will have to stop criticizing Michael Brown.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams you may have a point if I actually posted it but as you can see when you actually care to open the link on your old time device Trump posted this one – as well as Pence the one before and again Trump the previous one about 2020 For the most of it Joe Absher will tell you I;ve stayed away from the Trump pawn train here in the past year but cant say SO about MBrown – has he not posted on the 4 horses YET?
Darrin Howard
Every Christian should get behind President Trump and Mike Pence.The Four Congress women that Trump told to honor our country or GO HOME. Because the 4 democratic senator women have insulted our country and complained about its history of racism.The 4 women also continue to insult israel and Jews.
RichardAnna Boyce
Pence is trying to be the emperor’s clothes; so dont blame him.
Varnel Watson
Darrin Howard WHEN you say EVERY Christian do you ALSO mean the thousands of migrant Catholics stuck at border camps and their children separated and placed in cages? Should they TOO get behind? Philip Williams Nelson Banuchi
Darrin Howard
Anyone that follows the laws of the land. meaning the united states border laws not international courts laws.
Varnel Watson
Darrin Howard those Christians are actually praying against Trump and his policies – how would you feel with the laws of the land during the times of antiChrist?
Darrin Howard
you cant be serious. christians are praying against Trump.
Darrin Howard
Trump is the most pro christian president we have ever had. why would christians pray against Trump.
Varnel Watson
Darrin Howard I feel Nelson Banuchi may disagree What makes one more pro Christian than other – certainly NOT the values in this particular case RichardAnna Boyce
Darrin Howard
well if you wont to vote democrat thats your buisness. but just remember that democrats want judges that do not side with religous freedom.
Darrin Howard
democrats want late term abortions insanity almost to the point of killing live full babies.
Varnel Watson
Darrin Howard I dont want you to do nothing except tell the truth and nothing but the truth Can you 🙂
Darrin Howard
democrats want to force transexual and strange intellectuallism and weird fetish lifestyles forced into scientific reality on your children.
Darrin Howard
if you vote against Trump then you are voting to put your childrens religous freedom in jepordy as democrats will put in liberal judges that will force your children to honor secular science.
Varnel Watson
Darrin Howard I dont know about that Trump is certainly not Christ but what about the religious freedom of those migrant children stuck in cages at the border? https://www.amazon.com/Donald-Trump-Not-Savior-Evangelical/dp/0768449936
Varnel Watson
wait now Philip Williams there is YET another Dr Michael Brown – Project Space at Mohammed Bin Rashid Space Centre MBRSC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lATNJgCAPM
Franco D'Agostino
https://tennesseestar.com/2019/01/02/minneapolis-little-mogadishu-sees-56-percent-increase-in-violent-crimes-caused-by-somali-gangs/
Varnel Watson
Jim Price noticed that many people are commenting today that it’s okay to send refugees back because it is the legal thing to do. DOES this mean sending also ALL who came over since the Mayflower? Nelson Banuchi Philip Williams Neil Steven Lawrence NOW this is disturbing because wasnt Paula his family priest?
In Your most holy name, I cast out all spirits of darkness from this chamber. Spirits not from You. I cast out the spirit of discouragement which deadens the hope of those who are of goodwill. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-chaplain-prays-to-exorcise-all-spirits-of-darkness-at-play-in-the-peoples-house
Steve Losee
He didn’t say it because of their ethnicity, but because of the hateful things they’ve been saying about America. And in THAT context, I completely agree with him. I think it’s tragic and disgraceful that people actually voted for them.
Keith Day
I can see it. The white horse, The Red horse, The Black Horse, and the Pale horse
Philip Williams
Keith Day a white horse there?
Varnel Watson
OK this is getting racist now isnt it?
Varnel Watson
NOT sure why this topic picked up so much After all most churches could care less about politics today right?
Varnel Watson
NOT sure why this topic picked up so much After all most churches could care less about politics today right? I’m serious. I don’t get it. If she was a fourth generation American that hailed from Kentucky (or Texas or Nebraska or Oregon…), we would STILL feel the same way about someone who seems to think everything in America is wrong.
Now, we might use the words “send her back,” but we might say “Go home!” or “Find another country!”
And if she does come from another nation (or shares a particular culture with another nation), then, yes, we’d likely say something along the lines
Wouldn’t we feel that way about someone who burned the American flag? I would. And Ilhan Omar has, in my opinion, burned the American flag with her words.
Here’s the thing…. When a person becomes an American, we respect that. But most of us, if we married into a family, are going to tread softly until we feel we understand matters, or have earned a level of respect (or at least a greater right to be heard).
Yes, I know that when you are an American, you have these things IMMEDIATELY. But that would be true in a family also…but it doesn’t make it wise to do so. And when Omar comes across as someone who doesn’t share American values (which might be a consequence of her unfortunate choice of religions), or as someone who needs to truly understand America before she starts whaling away at our nation, then, yeah, she’s going to get the “go back home,” “send her back,” etc. treatement.
We all understand the difference between legitimate debate and whistling up the Trump Derangement Syndrome sufferers. As best I can tell, Omar’s and AOC’s only real “contribution” is loathing Trump and being so radical as to get press attention.
There are plenty of ways and reasons to criticize Trump without resorting to the f-word. And he, too, should take heed of common courtesy, lest we one day say to him, “Send him back to New York.”
Varnel Watson
Jim Price I am wondering what your response maybe in regard to your friends posts from the other day Follow up?