Click to join the conversation with over 500,000 Pentecostal believers and scholars
| PentecostalTheology.com
1 John 4:2 (ESV):
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
When I read this verse, my immediate impression is that of the incarnation: that Jesus already existed in a fleshless form before but then decided to take on human flesh at the moment of his incarnation (hence "he came in the flesh" -> from no flesh to in the flesh). Does everyone get the same impression while reading this verse?
Philip Williams
There is no flesh and blood in Heaven. All there are spiritual beings.
Troy Day
Philip Williams this statement by the undersigned is actually NOT true and heretical John Mushenhouse We are told in the Heaven there is A LAMB slayed. Not-flesh cannot be slayed – has to be flesh has to slayed in order to be presented @ the altar in heaven JOHN further explains such who do NOT recognize the lambs flesh incarnate and slayed in flesh for our since are antiChristS #over
Philip Williams
Troy Day did anyone ever tell you that this Lamb once became incarnate?
I know you know neither Greek nor Latin. But incarnate means becoming flesh and blood.
Troy Day
Philip Williams didnt anyone tell you THAT because he was the everlasting Father he was always the SON and always the LAMB incarnate ?
Philip Williams
Troy Day no, but the Bible tells me that the blood of the Lamb of God was shed in the fulness of time, c30AD
Troy Day
Philip Williams thou must B reading the devils dualist not-bible again
cause the BIBLE actually states
Revelation 13:8 states that “All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
“From the founding of the world” = Since word order is NOT so structured in ancient koine Greek as it is in English, this phrase may modify “written in the book of life from the creation of the world” or “belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world” in accordance with the original Greek text. So in order to decide which is the correct interpretation, one must refer to clear passages on the matter. Such passages rule out the phrase modifying “belonging to the Lamb that was slain [from the creation of the world]” since the Lamb, Jesus Christ, (Jn 1:29; 1 Cor 5:7), was slain once for all time at calvary during His historical incarnation period as the Messiah, and therefore not before the foundation of the world since it was for one time only:
[Heb 7:27; 9:28; 10:10]:
(v. 7:27) “Unlike the other high priests, He [Jesus Christ, (v. 24)] does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for His own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when He offered Himself.”
NOW THEN John Mushenhouse the phrase Foundation of the world” is a biblical phrase that appears in several passages of Scripture, emphasizing the creation event and God’s eternal plan that existed before the beginning of time as we experience it. In many contexts, this phrase conveys the idea of God laying down the initial framework of all created reality. It often underscores key theological truths such as divine sovereignty, foreknowledge, and the eternal nature of redemption.
The Greek phrase commonly translated as “foundation of the world” in the New Testament is “καταβολὴ κόσμου” (katabolē kosmou). This phrase points back to the origins of the cosmos, highlighting God’s intentional design. In the Old Testament, the concept appears in Hebrew texts reflecting God’s work at creation and His ongoing reign.
The Noun, themelios, occurs in Luke 6:48, 49; 14:29; Acts 16:26. Romans 15:20. 1Corinthians 3:l0, 11, 12. Ephesians 2:20. 1Timothy 6:19. 2Timothy 2:19. Hebrews 6:1; 11:10. Revelation 21:14, 19, 19. It is never used of the world (kosmos) or the earth (ge). The corresponding Verb (themelioo) occurs in Matthew 7:25. Luke 6:48. Ephesians 3:17. Colossians 1:23. Hebrews 1:10 and 1Peter 5:10. The verb is only once used of the earth (ge). Hebrews 1:10.
A comparison of all these passages will show that these are proper and regular terms for the English words “to found”, and “foundation”.
The Noun, katabole, occurs in Matthew 13:35; 25:34. Luke 11:50. John 17:24. Ephesians 1:4. Hebrews 4:3; 9:26; 11:11. 1Peter 1:20. Revelation 13:8; 17:8; and the corresponding Verb (kataballo) occurs in 2Corinthians 4:9. Hebrews 6:1; and Revelation 12:10.
A comparison of all these passages (especially 2Corinthians 4:9, and Revelation 12:10) will show that kataballo and katabole are not the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow.
Consistency, therefore, calls for the same translation in Hebrews 6:1, where, instead of “not laying again”, the rendering should be “not casting down”. That is to say, the foundation already laid, of repentance, etc., was not to be cast down or overthrown, but was to be left—and progress made unto the perfection.
Troy Day
“Foundation of the world”[Greek,kataboles kosmou] in the Bible
Luke 11.50 this generation may be charged with the blood of all the prophets shed
since thefoundation of the world…
Matthew
13.35
This was to fulfill what had been spoken through the prophet: “I will
open my mouth to speak in parables; I will proclaim what has been hid
den from thefoundation of the world.”
Matthew
25.34
Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are
blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the
foundation of the world…
John 17.24 Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me, may be with
me where I am, to see my glory, which you have given me because you
loved me before thefoundation of the world.
Ephesians
1.4
he chose us in Christ before thefoundation of the worldto be holy and
blameless before him in love.
Hebrews
4.3
For we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, “As in my
anger I swore, ‘They shall not enter my rest,'” though his works were fin
ished at thefoundation of the world.
Hebrews
9.25-26a
Nor was it to offer himself again and again, as the high priest enters the
Holy Place year after year with blood that is not his own; for then he
would have had to suffer again and again since thefoundation of the
world.
1 Peter 1.20 He was destined before thefoundation of the world, but was revealed
at the end of the ages for your sake.
Revelation
13.8
all the inhabitants of the earth will worship it, everyone whose name has
not been written from thefoundation of the worldin the book of life of
the Lamb that was slaughtered.
Revelation
17.8b
And the inhabitants of the earth, whose names have not been written in
the book of life from thefoundation of the world, will be amazed when
they see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come
Philip Williams
Troy Day yo, a one time event may be an eternal event. But this one time event occurred while Jesus was incarnated.
Troy Day
Philip Williams Good point, and that actually strengthens the confession that the Son truly became flesh in history: the Lamb is “slain from the foundation of the world” in God’s eternal decree, yet that once‑for‑all slaying happens in time in the incarnate, crucified Christ, whose glorified humanity now anchors our hope and exposes every spirit that refuses to confess Jesus Christ come in the flesh as antichrist.
Paul Hughes
In a word, yes. The concept of Logos or Son was taught by Arius of Alexandria as a being created by God, perhaps a “second God,” but orthodox theology eventually settled on the view that the Son was “only-begotten” of God and “firstborn,” meaning “special” or “unique.” When Christ as Son came as Incarnate in the flesh, centuries of arguments transpired over how divine He was versus how human. The extreme view of His divinity, supposing that Christ was not human at all but pretended to be, is called Docetism (from Greek DOKEW, “seem”), as in Gnostic dualism, its supporters being offended by any vestige or taint of humanity in the incarnate Christ. The other extreme emphasized His humanity and often his human birth and His mother, Mary, calling her the Theotokos (“God-bearer”).
Paul Hughes
https://biblequestion.wordpress.com/2025/03/19/the-fullness-that-fills-chapter-2/