DEATH of DENOMINATIONS: Are denominations Biblical?

Posted by John Ruffle in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Are denominations Biblical? If so, where do we see them as nadated by God in the NT, and if not, how can the existence of them today among Bible-following Christian groups be justified? Finally what proposals can be made to remedy the current situation in Christendom?

John Kissinger [01/31/2016 7:41 AM]
John Ruffle not sure if you were around when we discussed the DEATH of DENOMINATIONS with Terry Wiles Tell us what you think after you read it http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/death-of-denominations/

John Ruffle [02/01/2016 2:06 AM]
I notice no one seems to want to engage in my question. It might cut a little too close to the bone maybe? Pastors who make their living from a “tythe” and who would loose their livelihood if they came “out” of their denomination have indeed life changing choices to make. But it’s worth it if it means following our Lord’s leading. Many protestant pastors have lost materially when they returned to the Catholic Church. I’d already lost everything many years before. My prayer is that those whom the Holy Spirit is speaking to – and I am convinced that their are some, possibly lurkers here- will have the courage to come out of the confusion that Martin Luther launched. Yes – the Catholic Church needed renewal – but the way St Francis did it before him – not the divisive manner of Luther.

Corey Forsyth [02/01/2016 8:49 AM]
In the strictest sense, I do not see anything in the NT upholding denominations. However, I do see examples of NT leaders keeping each other accountable. In that regard, denominations are a good thing. My opinion is that without denominations, we would have a lot more issue with rogue pastors grossly distorting the Gospel.
I am not well versed in the history of denominations but I would hope that the structure or concept pf denominations started with the same idea as Paul guiding the different churches as described through the NT.

Carolyn Parker [02/01/2016 1:10 PM]
Carolyn Parker I was to a Reviival one night anda singing group got up to sing in the song they were singing said there wasn’t going to be no denominations in heaven I saw people get up and walk out we are all going to be one

82 Comments

  • Reply October 16, 2017

    Street Preacherz

    Denominations are nice. It’s like a franchise. There is some variation but you know what you’re going to get. Churches that are not ‘aligned’ can have more freedom but can get off track with doctrine or worse licentiousness.
    I always say the church will taken on the character of the pastor. If he’s kind, honors God loves people isnt ashamed to get on the floor and pray the congregation will grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord. If the pastor is mean and stingy the people will be cold and heartless. Generally speaking of course…

  • Reply October 19, 2017

    Paul Hughes

    Biblical denominations are those which faithfully preach and teach God’s Word and practice the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Others which go off on a tangent into false doctrine, leaving their “first love,” replacing sound doctrine with doctrines of men, must be rejected.

  • Reply October 19, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Paul Hughes This is not even what the “Death of Denominations” article in The Progressive Christian Nov/Dec 2008 is about

    Anglican Communion suspending the Episcopal Church reminds of this study on the “Death of Denominations” in the TPCmagazine.org The Progressive Christian Magazine – a pluralistic, ecumenical magazine with articles that are willing to “foster vigorous dialogue and debate” and “challenge conventional wisdom” http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/death-of-denominations/

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    From the Bible facts, no one can prove the assertion that Jesus did not intend denominations. Rather, denominations are implied by Christ’s command to “go and make disciples,” and by Paul in his many admonitions to deliver to people his specific doctrine, and what he generally called “my Gospel.” It was intended that converts stay in the main stream of apostolic teaching and authority, and not drift off after this or that new teacher or new “gospel.” Paul warned the Ephesian church,

    Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

    Moreover, the spirit of independence is often born of schism, which Paul deprecated, see Rom 16:17, 1 Cor 1:10, 3:3, 11:18.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    Denominations are man-made dogmas, including oneness, twoness, and threeness. GOD only said, be HOLY.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Are denominations Biblical? If so, where do we see them as nadated by God in the NT, and if not, how can the existence of them today among Bible-following Christian groups be justified? Finally what proposals can be made to remedy the current situation in Christendom? Philip Williams RichardAnna Boyce

    I notice no one seems to want to engage in my question. It might cut a little too close to the bone maybe? Pastors who make their living from a “tythe” and who would loose their livelihood if they came “out” of their denomination have indeed life changing choices to make. But it’s worth it if it means following our Lord’s leading. Many protestant pastors have lost materially when they returned to the Catholic Church. I’d already lost everything many years before. My prayer is that those whom the Holy Spirit is speaking to – and I am convinced that their are some, possibly lurkers here- will have the courage to come out of the confusion that Martin Luther launched. Yes – the Catholic Church needed renewal – but the way St Francis did it before him – not the divisive manner of Luther.

    • Reply August 23, 2019

      RichardAnna Boyce

      i have a vested interest as i go to a non denominational pentecostal church. Biblically apostles letters were sent to the saints at Ephesus etc; or maybe saints at 1st st , 2nd st, 3rd st etc.

    • Reply August 23, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      non denominational pentecostal is an oxymoron and probably full with heretical teachings

    • Reply August 23, 2019

      RichardAnna Boyce

      Troy Day we read the Bible for all it is worth according to AOG Gordon Fee, and not according to denominational bias. We earn rewards in the Millennium for faithfulness to Holy Spirit teaching not denominational teaching.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    There is nowhere in the HOLY SCRIPTURE and so-called denomination, No Apostolic, no Pentecostal, no Baptist None.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    GOD said be HOLY!!!

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    Dogmas will send all people to the pit.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    AGAIN I do not see anything in the NT upholding denominations. However, I do see examples of NT leaders keeping each other accountable. In that regard, denominations are a good thing. My opinion is that without denominations, we would have a lot more issue with rogue pastors grossly distorting the Gospel.
    I am not well versed in the history of denominations but I would hope that the structure or concept pf denominations started with the same idea as Paul guiding the different churches as described through the NT.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    GOD said, Matthew 16:17-18 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    Denominations are theologies of men, not GOD.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Denis Herve Mercier This is not even what the “Death of Denominations” article in The Progressive Christian Nov/Dec 2008 is about

    I;ve discussed with William DeArteaga prior the
    Anglican Communion suspending the Episcopal Church which reminds of this study on the “Death of Denominations” in the TPCmagazine.org The Progressive Christian Magazine – a pluralistic, ecumenical magazine with articles that are willing to “foster vigorous dialogue and debate” and “challenge conventional wisdom” http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/death-of-denominations/

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    Each denomination has it owe way to get to heaven. JESUS said John 14:6
    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. JESUS also said John 14:15
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. SO GOD said to be Holy.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    There is no good Denomination, not one.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    ONE church not two or a thousand churches. We are in HIS Church or in a man-made church.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    2 Corinthians 6:17
    17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. So obey GOD.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    I did, Once JESUS opened my heart to HIS truth, I came out of her, the whore churches.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    False teachers, Pastors knows the bible inside out but still lost.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    The devil knows the Scriptures too, where is he going.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    Baptist has some truth, oneness Pentecostals have some truth, trinity Pentecostals have some truth. But JESUS has all truth!!! Come out of these devil churches you are in.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    So what should all of you do Repent, come out JESUS said.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    so whats your REAL point? Denis Herve Mercier

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Philip Williams

    They exist for professional clergy, which seems as much problem as denominations, where power corrupts.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    GOD never said that we should all go to where we like the teachings of men theology. Point Denominations were started by the devil himself, to confuse the church people like he the devil did Eve.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    Ephesians 4:5
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    Above said One LORD, who is JESUS, One faith we must all believe the bible way alike, One baptism, not two or three ways.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    1 Peter 1:15-16
    15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

    16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

    Leviticus 20:26
    26 And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    John 5:39-40 3
    39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

    40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    Even if you receive the HOLY GHOST and are baptized in the Name of JESUS CHRIST, it does not guarantee we make it to heaven.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    What happened no one fears the LORD our GOD anymore. So people do what they want, go to any false denomination church and wake up in hell. for being in a lie.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    Isaiah 56:10-11
    10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

    11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
    Jeremiah 23:1
    23 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Denis Herve Mercier

    Leviticus 15:31 (KJV)
    31 Thus shall ye separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness; that they die not in their uncleanness, when they defile my tabernacle that is among them.

    2 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV)
    17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Denis Herve Mercier not sure that what you are saying relates to death of denomin. from OP

    • Reply August 23, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Troy Day
      The DEAD KNOW NOTHING…
      As it is to men so is to DENOMINATIONS..

    • Reply August 23, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      DEAD CHURCH WALKING

    • Reply August 23, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Troy Day
      We were DEAD in our transgressions before being saved..and yet we WALKED.
      Yes, DEAD and walking and talking and teaching and worshiping “God” t

    • Reply August 23, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Troy Day
      Brother Day may i be a bit bolder in my assertions..
      The Pharicees and Saduceees and teachers of the law and elders in Jesus time DIED..
      But the same spirits are alive today and kicking in DENOMINATIONS..
      Paul lamented about this kind of people..
      //For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
      Romans 10:2//

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Isara Mo

    //They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ ”
    Matthew 15:9 NIV//
    When teachings and worship.have human.foundations what should the righteous do?
    Turn to Jesus who is the TRUTH..

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Isara Mo

    //And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
    I Corinthians 2:4‭-‬5 //
    Pursuasive human preaching teaching and wisdom existed during Pauls time…
    It forms a greater percentage of teachings and preachings in Chritendom today…eloquence, brillliance, intelligent presentation of the WORD in the form of denominations but LACKING power..
    Jesus promised POWER and the disciplies received it and demonstrated it…
    The writer of the above epistle who came into the scene later also proved the Lord Jesus was truth by a message and a demonstration of power..
    Who silenced the Spirit of the Lord, who blocked Him, who put Him.in a corner, who restrains Him…
    Human wisdom and rules and instructions and revelations…
    When people chose to LEAD THEMSELVES instead of being LED the consquences are DEATH…

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Isara Mo

    A demonstration of the SPIRIT and POWER…
    Jesus was the embodiment of this(Acts 10:38 …how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and POWER…)
    So were the aposles..Paul inclusive..
    Religion is salvation without the Holy Spirit and Power…
    The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Life in Christ.
    How can a church have a Spirit of Life and at the same time manifest death?…

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Derrick Stokes

    If I remember correctly, in Acts we see the first denominational split which brought about the Council of Jerusalem.

  • Reply August 23, 2019

    Rick Ferguson

    Are there any denominations that openly claim that joining them results in salvation??

    • Reply August 23, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      the catholic church? Philip Williams

  • Reply August 24, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Rick Ferguson the catholic church? Philip Williams

    • Reply August 24, 2019

      Rick Ferguson

      Troy Day that’s not a denomination. That’s a totally different religion.

    • Reply August 24, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      Rick Ferguson the catholic church is not a denomination ? Philip Williams may strongly differ here

  • Reply August 25, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Philip Williams is the catholic denomination dying ?

  • Reply December 7, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    WHAT do you think Doyle Rogers Tony Barron do yall have the answer as for the rest of us today… ?

  • Reply December 7, 2019

    Tony Barron

    GOSPEL ACCORDING TO PROPHECY vs.
    GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY

    The 12 disciples preached “the gospel of Jesus Christ” according to PROPHECY.

    Whereas, apostle Paul preached “the gospel of Christ” according to the MYSTERY.

    Mark wrote according to PROPHECY,

    Mr 1:1-2 KJV: “The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE PROPHETS,”

    Paul wrote according to the MYSTERY,

    Ro 16:25 KJV: “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY, which was kept secret since the world began,”

    We KNOW the gospel Mark preached was NOT the same gospel Paul preached because we can READ Mark 1:1-2 and we know that Paul received FURTHER revelation from the ASCENDED Lord Jesus Christ that was kept secret until God later FIRST revealed it to Paul (see Eph 3:1-10 KJV).

    And, if you want to deny what Paul teaches in Ephesians 3:1-10 KJV, YOU ARE NOT A KJV BIBLE BELIEVER. PERIOD.

    The gospel of Christ that saves today, the gospel of Christ that Paul preached, CANNOT BE FOUND OUTSIDE OF ROMANS THRU PHILEMON, KJV.

    Paul is the only person that preached a gospel of FAITH without works for salvation.

    The “gospel of Christ” according to the MYSTERY, is a distinct gospel that Jesus, from heaven, FIRST gave exclusively to apostle Paul. Paul’s gospel of Christ is a unique gospel in that works of any kind is completely EXCLUDED. Paul’s gospel of Christ states we are saved by God’s GRACE and mercy through faith. Paul’s gospel of Christ is BELIEVE plus nothing. Paul’s gospel of Christ also reveals the forgiveness of all sins the moment a person believes 1Cor 15:1-4, how that Christ DIED FOR OUR SINS, was buried, and rose again the third day. You simply won’t find all those aspects of the gospel of Christ anywhere outside of Paul’s writings, which are contained in Romans thru Philemon, KJV.

    The “gospel of Jesus Christ” according to PROPHECY included repent and be water baptized. Whereas, Paul’s “gospel of Christ” DID NOT include water baptism, nor does Paul ever say that we must repent to be saved. On the contrary, Paul emphasizes that we must simply BELIEVE the gospel without works for salvation by Grace. And, he even warned us that if we add the works of the Law to his grace “gospel of Christ” that faith is made void, the cross and the promise made of none effect, the reward is NOT reckoned of grace but of debt. Paul says that if it be of works it is NO MORE GRACE.

    Paul wrote,

    1Co 1:17 KJV: “For Christ sent me NOT to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be MADE OF NONE EFFECT.”

    Ro 4:14 KJV: “For if they which are of the law be heirs, FAITH IS MADE VOID, and the PROMISE MADE OF NONE EFFECT:”

    Ro 4:4 KJV: “Now to him that worketh is the reward NOT RECKONED OF GRACE, but of debt.”

    Ro 4:5 KJV: “But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH ON HIM that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”

    Eph 2:8-9 KJV: “For BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: [9] NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.”

    Ro 11:6 KJV: “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But IF IT BE OF WORKS, THEN IS IT NO MORE GRACE:”

    Ro 10:4 KJV: “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH.”

    Eph 1:13 KJV: “In whom ye also TRUSTED, after that ye HEARD the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom also after that YE BELIEVED, YE WERE SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise,”

    Be a KJV Bible believer!

    Don’t deny what God has clearly SEPARATED in His word of truth.

    Don’t deny the true gospel message that saves today!

    People’s souls are at stake!

    Put your pride in your denomination aside and seek the TRUTH of God’s word AS IT IS WRITTEN, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    ________________________

    Watch this video sermon …

    JESUS WAS A DISPENSATIONALIST – (48-min Video) – by Ray Keable – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thvBE1U6ol4

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Rick Ferguson

      Tony Barron Paul preached the faith he once destroyed. That was Peters faith. Paul here states the faith he preached is the same faith that was being preached before his conversion. He was not preaching anything different
      Galatians 1:23

      23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Tony Barron

      Rick Ferguson
      Well how do you explain Peter’s statement here about Paul if Paul destroyed the faith? By the way Galatians is written by Paul who is preaching the faith yet he is not the one that destroyed it…hes speaking of his old man Saul who was converted on the road to Damascus and God named him Paul because the old man Saul died at the cross with Christ when God changed him so get real and fact… Paul has the most books in the Bible, yet he is silenced. Futhermore explain Peter’s statement if they are both preaching the same gospel.

      2 Peter 3:15-16 Authorized (King James) Version.
      15. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
      16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Rick Ferguson

      Tony Barron unfortunately I’m too busy to post a lot now but Paul said he was the one who previously destroyed the faith, you said he didn’t. Paul was the one who said he preached the same faith he had once destroyed, you said he didn’t. That’s twice already you have disagreed with Paul so your argument is with him not me. My belief system doesn’t require me to ignore, reject, or discredit any verses. Yours does apparently

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Tony Barron

      Rick Ferguson
      Think about it when you’re saved your made a new creature in Christ, the baptism that matters is not water….the baptism that matters is 1 Corinthians 12:13, open your Bible and observe for your self what the scripture saith. And apply 1 Corinthians 12:13 to Romans chapter 6. And I pray the Lord opens your eyes, when Saul was blinded by the light on the road to Damascus God severed the flesh from the spirit, and baptized him with the Holy Ghost into the body of Christ and gave him a new name and imputed righteousness to Paul for believing. Question.
      Do you think God forgot about that lie you told your father that one Saturday?
      13 epistles Paul wrote, who wrote more doctrine than Paul? Why does everyone disregard Romans 11:13? What about Romans 2:16? What closet sins will manifest on the day of judgment?

      John 3:20 Authorized (King James) Version.
      20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

  • Reply December 7, 2019

    Daniel J Hesse

    I am so glad I am a part of the Assemblies of God!

  • Reply December 7, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Since the beginning of the 21st century, only 6-10% of new born believers in America receive the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, which by 2018 has resulted in:Over 60% within Global Pentecostalism do not speak in tongues

    A major doctrinal shift within Pentecostal Theology today claims speaking in tongues is not the only evidence of Holy Spirit Baptism

    Some theologians even claim there is no initial evidence in the Bible

    Others today go further to believe that no outward sign of the Holy Spirit baptism is necessary.

    what is the answer to this dilemma then? — revival and restoration of the Pentecostal Message through praying, fasting and preaching:Salvation of the sinner’s soul and entire sanctification through the Blood of Jesus

    Baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire with initial evidence of speaking in tongues

    Supernatural gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit

    Healing, deliverance and signs following

    Pre-Millennial return of Christ and pre-Tribulation Rapture of His Church to glory

    Please consider the URGENCY of this generation!Let us reason together what can we do to prevent this rapid decline in Biblical spirituality. Joe Absher Peter Vandever Daniel J Hesse Alan Smith

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Peter Vandever

      Troy Day Azusa report has an article quoting Darren on this

    • Reply December 8, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      Peter Vandever I cant ever open those sites My spam malware blocker marks them as harmful or spam cliicks Who is Darren – the text I quoted is from our own source

  • Reply December 7, 2019

    Chris Friend

    A non denominational Pentecostal is not a Pentecostal. Technically, They’re a charismatic.

    Denominations are like surnames. They’re family groupings. And I love the IPHC which is where God has placed me. And I love the whole body of Christ.
    Including those of an independent Spirit!

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      this is pretty wrong if you ask me @ Azusa they were of NO denomination 🙂 which denomination were they from @ Azusa? Guess we need to grow out of the status quo

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Chris Friend

      Troy Day the people from IPHC (and other similar groups) were already part of denominations before Azusa. And God swept those denominations into Pentecostalism.

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Chris Friend

      It was in general, the non-Wesleyan side of Pentecostals who went on to form the AOG and other such groups.

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Chris Friend

      Troy Day see Vinson synans book on the topic.

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      Chris Friend you didnt answer my question What denomination were they @ Azusa? IPHC was established about 5yrs after Azusa on January 30, 1911 in Falcon, NC

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Chris Friend

      Troy Day

      The first congregation to carry the name Pentecostal Holiness Church was formed in Goldsboro, North Carolina in 1898. This church was founded as a result of the evangelistic ministry of Abner Blackmon Crumpler, a Methodist evangelist.

      First convention (think denominational gathering) was in 1900.

      1911 is a merger date.

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Chris Friend

      Vinson Synan is the preeminent Pentecostal historian. He says half of all holiness denominations that existed in the USA then came into Pentecostalism through what we know as the Azusa st revival.

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Chris Friend

      Troy Day do you want books and page numbers? There is plenty of good resource out there (using eye witness accounts) to help us see what God did. We don’t need to twist the history to suit any bias against denominations.

    • Reply December 7, 2019

      Peter Vandever

      Chris Friend disagree. Eddie Hyatt is the Pentecostal historian

  • Reply December 7, 2019

    RichardAnna Boyce

    only churches should be JESUS CHURCH on 1st st, 2nd st, 3rd st etc

  • Reply December 7, 2019

    Peter Vandever

  • Reply December 7, 2019

    John Duncan

    If a church grows and multiplies it will eventually be called a denomination.

    • Reply December 8, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      what about thousands of non-denomin. that grow and multiply without any denominational calling?

  • Reply December 7, 2019

    John Duncan

    When your church leaders cease to be church planters and become administrators then the “denomination” starts dying and it is not truly biblical. That is my opinion.

    • Reply December 8, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      this may be about right IDK but we will see

  • Reply December 8, 2019

    Deacon Joseph Bell

    • Reply December 8, 2019

      Varnel Watson

      patheos is bad news – whats with the link

  • Reply December 8, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Chris Friend of course they were part of denominations they EXITED in order for Azusa to happen Which denomination was Parham in 1906-1909? What about Seymour who rejected all denominations What about Bartleman who refused to join ANY of the new Pentecostal denominations formed out of Azusa after 1909? They wernt part of denominations 🙂 who are you kidding here?

  • Reply December 8, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Peter Vandever I could not find the link to the AG article you pointed to HOWEVER the discussion on the false AG growth stats is taken DIRECTLY from our website

    Back when the 2017 AG growth boom was in the news we did a dozen of stat articles and discussions looking into it The series showed the growth was OUTSIDE of the US mainly international churches that are part of the fellowship but are not really AG Springfield – more of a grass root growth type of thing rather than denominational strategy

    We further we able to foresee in the discussions that AG will stop the acclaimed growth within 1-2 yrs or basically their research cycle time frame And so it happened Just look at their 2019 stats where they have 300 more churches closing than opening per capita You can dig the discussions and check them out from the archive We had some ppl from the West joining in, several regional superintedants authors of AG fundamental documents like Resolution 16 and others joining who at the end had to admit Growth was international and was no more

    AG’s response on the stats was expected as our discussions reached Springfield and further. Guess they were read at a higher level than we anticipated at first. The response was loosely based on a fragment study done by a well known Eastern European theologian who showed 25 year revival cycles taking place in EU Pentecostalism His theoretix was taken and applied to the US AG but obviously by 2019 the stats show sudden decline in churches. I am not sure HOW the rest of the church stats were taken as conversion was nowhere defined in the stats, infilling with the Spirit was counted with or without speaking in tongues and AG does not report sanctification so when they say MEMBERSHIP that reflects ppl taken into the church NOT newly saved/converted or disciplined…. Just something to think about in times as such

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