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Pentecostal Theology | PentecostalTheology.com
Can you profess to be be Pentecostal without speaking in tongues?
Following Alan N Carla Smith great post from last week (http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/can-you-profess-to-be-a-christian/) and the challenge by John Elder on speaking in tongues here’s another great question for ya’ll.
Can you profess to be be Pentecostal without speaking in tongues? (90s stats had it that over 30% of US Pentecostals does not practice speaking in tongues at all). Is this another nominal Pentecostalism? (Pentecostalism without holiness being the first one) Rick Wadholm Jr Charles Page
John Elder [06/16/2015 8:19 PM]
I never professed to be pentecostal, pentecost is a day not the church. There is no such thing as the pentecostal church.
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 8:21 PM]
http://cupandcross.com/are-pentecostals-offering-strange-fire/
John Elder [06/16/2015 8:31 PM]
Some people are given truth that pentecostals reject.
John Elder [06/16/2015 8:37 PM]
I speak in tongues but don’t believe you must speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Ghost. The word don’t teach you will or must.
John Elder [06/16/2015 8:51 PM]
I know I’m born again, do you. What is born again ? John.3
[1] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
…[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
What must a person do to enter into the kingdom of God ? You must be born (regenerated) again.Being regenerated again is not something that takes place all at once.
(1) You must believe Jesus is the Christ.
1John.5
1.[1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
(2)You must be born of water and of the Spirit.
Acts 2:[16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
[19] And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
[20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[40] And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[41] Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
(3)You must be born of the word.
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth(word) through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:23: Being born again, not of corruptible seed,(WORD) but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Eph.5:25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;26: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,(SEED)27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
1 John 2:5: But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1John 3:9: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed (word) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1John 4:7: Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God,(THE WORD) and knoweth God.8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.9: In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
When you are completely born (regenerated) by believing, repenting,filled with the Spirit,baptized in Jesus name,obey the truth, and washed by the word,then you have come to the place where you cannot sin.This is born (regenerated) again.1John 3:9: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed (word) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 8:58 PM]
well. there’s no Holy Ghost baptism in the Bible without speaking in tongues, so there you have it
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:07 PM]
So you totaly ignor and don’t believe what God said, that alone makes you an un-believer. May I say if you don’t prophsey and have dreams and visions as God said he never poured out his Spirit on you ? Believe what God says NOT man.God said they would prophesy and have dreams and visions when he pours out his Spirit.Acts.2:16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 9:08 PM]
Why dont we see what God said: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues (Mark 16:17)
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:10 PM]
The Holy Ghost only falls on some people now days as it did on the old testament prophets. Many think they are filled with the Holy Ghost and are not, it only falls on them. That are these people. Math.7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and br…oad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 9:12 PM]
Only some? Let’s see what The BIBLE says: They were ALL filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them (Acts 2:4) Ed Brewer Steve Webb
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:17 PM]
Do all have all gifts ? No. Do all cast out devils,no. Do all speak in tongues ? No
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 9:17 PM]
Hold on – I am not done! And they were ALL FILLED with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly (Acts 4:31)
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:18 PM]
On the day of Pentecost they were prophesying in tongues and it was being interpreted in 17 different tongues from the mouths of the speakers to the ears of the hearers
(Ways tongues is interpreted,)1 Cor.14: 6. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
(On the day of Pentecost it was interpreted because all the hearers understood in their own language.So there was the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues and prophecy.Three gifts on the day of Pentecost.)Acts2:[8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 9:20 PM]
You are starting to repeat yourself. Acts 19:6 ? When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied (obviously two different things)
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:20 PM]
We know that all who are filled with the Holy Ghost don’t speak with tongues because Paul ask these questions.1 Cor.12:27: Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28:And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues .29:Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?30: Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?31:But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.(The answer to all of these questions is NO)
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 9:20 PM]
moving to previous question: NO they shall not all cast out demons, but YES they shall cast ALL demons out…
Steve Webb [06/16/2015 9:22 PM]
Acts 2:4 is often used as a stand-alone, and rightfully so, as the sign and mandate of Holy Spirit baptism. All that were present received the power they sought. All today that seek can and will receive the power and baptism of the Holy Spirit, with tongues being the initial evidence.
I often like to link with this the Gospel of Luke, and words of Christ:
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. (Luke 24:49 KJV)
It was, and is, a mandate from Christ to be filled with the Holy Ghost to enter ministry of any type. And the initial evidence was tongues. Stephen had to be full of the Holy Ghost to wait tables.
The problem today is this ideology that everyone is a winner, and everybody gets to heaven.
As you pointed out John Elder strait is the gait and narrow the way. Strait means rigid, inflexible. Hebrews 13:8 (along with other scripture) says that Christ, the Word, doesn’t change. If the Holy Ghost filled them all on Pentecost in the upper room, and Stephen had to be full of the Holy Ghost just to wait tables then that mandate still stands.
Tongues are still the initial evidence, and anyone that wants gifts, and seeks, will be given “severally”.
Not everyone will cast demons, but every one that seeks Christ can if they will only seek the fullness of God in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as they should if they truly love Christ.
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:25 PM]
You need to read all of what I say and undersyand it.
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 9:26 PM]
John Elder Please do not disregard the Bible (Mark 16:17 Acts 2:4; 4:31; 19:6 ) and let’s go back to the original question, which is not if there are Pentecostal churches, but if one can be Pentecostal without speaking in tongues?
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:35 PM]
Yes one can receive the Holy Ghost without speaking in tongues, God said when he pours out his Spirit they will prophesy and have dreams and visions, NOT speak in tongues.
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:36 PM]
This is not in scripture and is false teaching, Tongues are still the initial evidence,
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:38 PM]
So you totaly ignor and don’t believe what God said, that alone makes you an un-believer. May I say if you don’t prophsey and have dreams and visions as God said he never poured out his Spirit on you ? Believe what God says NOT man.God said they would prophesy and have dreams and visions when he pours out his Spirit.Acts.2:16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:42 PM]
Please note what happened here.Acts4:4.First the disciples were preaching and got 5,000 new believers but they were not filled with the Holy Ghost yet.Then later they went back to their own company of 5,000 new believers and prayed for them and they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke the word of God with boldness (Prophecy).They didn’t speak with tongues when they were filled this first time, verse 23-31
23: And being let go, they went to their own company,(5000 new believers) and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.29: And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they (NOTE they NOT US) may speak thy word
30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they(5000 new believers) were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.(prophecy)
Steve Webb [06/16/2015 9:44 PM]
The fundamental idea of Pentecostalism is baptism in the Holy Spirit, this is an entirely different thing than “pouring out the Spirit”. Baptism is a willing immersion. All may be poured upon, but not all will willingly immerse themselves in Christianity and receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is evidenced by speaking in tongues. Trying to mix a pouring out of the Spirit with baptism of the Holy Ghost is not rightly dividing the Word
John Elder [06/16/2015 9:48 PM]
On the day of pentecost when they spoke in tongues it was understood. Today when people speaks in tongues 99% of the time it is not understood.
TRUTH is. The following scripture it don’t say they spoke in tongues or did anything.Acts 8:16: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)17: Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost
Acts9:17: And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.18: And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized
Acts2:41: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.42: And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers
Different signs follow in each persons life.Mark16:17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;18: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover
George A Parker [06/27/2015 11:53 AM]
Yes, because GOD will endow you with that blessing, HE wants to…………..
pastorG [07/17/2015 8:43 AM]
I believe Scripture teaches that tongues will follow the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. The problem lies with us, people simply do not yield. Once a person asks, they are filled, tongues will follow as they yield. We see this exampled with Jesus & the Disciples. Just before He ascended He breated on them & said ‘be filled with the Holy Spirit’ NOW, they were already believers (so they were already indwelt by the Spirt). They did NOT speak in tongues here, they didn’t speak in tounges until later in the upper room. So we would not say they did not receive the Baptism In the Holy Spirit when Jesus prayed for them and filled them Himself. They were filled at the time Jesus breathed on them, tongues came when thy yielded. I believe there are many Spirit- baptized believers who, although tongues is available at anytime, they have not yielded due to many factors. We in the Pentecostal tradition did not even begin hard defining who was or was not baptists in the Spirt by whether they spoke in tongues or not until 1906-1907. Do the research. Even the apostle Paul, it does not say that he spoke in tongues when he receives the baptism when he was prayed for, but we know he spoke in tongues bc/ he told the church ‘I speak in young yes more than you all’. AND HERE is another point, why don’t we teach and preach this statement from Paul “when I am with you i would rather speak 5 words (in the known language) than 10,000 in an unkonwn tongue” ( sorry, the #’s maybe off)??? Paul clearly states to the Corinthians that tongues is for personal edification where as prophecy (forth telling) of the Wprd is for corporate edification?? I praise God that He gave us the gift of praying in the Spirit.
pastorG [07/17/2015 9:25 AM]
ALSO, again, I am baptized in the Holy Spirit and pray in tongues, but scripturally the evidence of this baptism is a CHANGED life w/power from on high. To me, we have emphasized tongues so much in the church that we don’t even emphasize what the baptism is for…a life of Spirit filled power to be Christ’s witnesses…Jesus didn’t tell the Disciples to go to the upper room and wait bc/ you are going to get to speak I. tongues, NO,…Jesus didn’t even mention tongues in relation to the upper room experience…He said wait and tarry and you will be ensues with power…Jesus emphasized the change that was coming in their lives… 🙂
Leah M Grier-Lee [07/17/2015 4:03 PM]
Yes but very, very difficult !! Pentecostalism is pretty much based on the events that took place in the second chapter of the book of Acts. People from everywhere were present for the Feast of Pentecost. The 120 in the upper room spoke in tongues but as so today, everyone does not get that gift. It is a wonderful gift everyone should pray for but interpretation would be the better gift !
