Brethren with the title of apostle

Posted by Bernard Jefferson in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Ok y’all I have a question. . . I notice that there are some brethren that carry the title of apostle. So how does one become qualified for such a title in today’s world?

82 Comments

  • Reply October 12, 2016

    Varnel Watson

  • Reply October 12, 2016

    John Lathrop

    They have to be called by God (see Mark 3, Acts 9, Eph. 4:11).

  • Reply October 18, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    AoG and CogOP reject apostles from the start. What about 4square and PHC? Karen Lucas

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Could the confusion over the twelve apostles of the Lamb have any bearing on this topic. The twelve apostles of the Lamb did not include Paul. They were eyewitness of our Lord Jesus life, ministry, death and resurrection.

  • Reply October 18, 2016

    John Lathrop

    Additional thought on apostles, while the “title” apostle does not fit into most denominational frameworks I think that the ministry still exists even if not called by that name. I see an apostle as a ministry not a title or an office. Based on Ephesians 4 I believe that Scripture supports their continuation beyond the first century.

  • Reply October 18, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Though openly and doctrinal rejecting the office of a modern apostle in his annual address before the assembly which convened September 8-14 1926, Bro AJ Tomlinson states that he had traveled 20,160 miles by train, steamship, automobile, autobus, taxi, rowboat, gasoline launch, trolley car, and on foot. He attended 24 conventions and ministered in local churches and in as many other places, besides assisting in the work of the church at Cleveland when he was at home and carrying on his office work. After giving a description of his work and other information, he stated how he felt concerning his place in the Church of God:

    “….
    I believe I feel my call to this work as distinctly as the early apostles and church fathers.
    ….
    I may be counted beside myself, but a spirit has taken possession of me, and it must be the spirit of the early apostles—the Spirit of God, that has so overwhelmed me that I don’t mind criticisms, don’t seem to mind anything except to see the Church of God rise to its full height and reach the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
    ….”

  • Reply January 23, 2017

    Stan Wayne

    I think it is a valid thought – I called a pastor an apostle last Sunday when I met with him – he has started -13 congregations recently – 9 Spanish 1 huge one in Chichua (sp?) 1 in Haitian French creole and 2 English

    If you would care to read the chapters on apostles in Watchman Nee’s The Normal Christian Church Life – I would love to carry on a dialog :

    http://www.fellowshipofthemartyrs.com/pdf/normal%20christian%20church_all.pdf

    • Reply January 23, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      That was a big book. I no longer have it. I personally don’t think it is unreasonable to think the Lord our God would use this gift in our day. We certainly need some things set in order.
      However after the shepherding movement and various scandles people are rightly wary. Have you heard Holy Hubert sermon Apostles. In his theocracy series?

    • Reply January 23, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      I attached link – Nees treatment of apostles is the Most biblical and thorough

    • Reply January 24, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Thank you.

  • Reply January 23, 2017

    Angel Ruiz

    Well modern day apostles is not biblical… Paul is the last Apostle…

    • Reply January 24, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      I’ve read your other comments you seem very knowledgeable and experienced. Is there a reason you would say that?

    • Reply January 24, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      As a Pentecostal Pastor I have been invited to peach and many churches some had amazing worship services where I would hope to bring that back to my home church… And sadly i have seen others are way to mystical, from vomiting, making animal noises, holy laughter, Jewish imitators… I have also seen pastor with the title of High Priest… Sadly I see it mostly in Hispanic independent churches where they don’t have any leadership overseen the things that are taught… on one occasion I heard a pastor say that when collecting the offering, “God is like a prostitute if you don’t pay up there is no intimacy”

      One dominating factor in most of these churches has been that they have a person hold the office of Apostle and/or Prophet…

    • Reply January 24, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      That’s awful. Run.. or rebuke and run. But surely abuses do not mean there are no Apostles since Paul. There are no fake $3 bills. Because there are no real 3$ bills. But there are plenty of fake $20 & 100’s because they are real. I have no desire to argue. I love you Pastor. I pray your good success. On a side note it is kind of funny though how people despise charismatics but use all there worship songs. But times were simpler then.

    • Reply January 24, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      True brother… Something to consider is how many apostles do we see after the death of Paul or John…

    • Reply January 24, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      Im not that old

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      David Lewayne Porter

      Paul himself stated,
      “Ephesians 4:11-13
      And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:”.
      Have the other offices ceased?
      Have the saints been perfected?
      Has The Work of the ministry ended?
      Has The Body come to the end of needing to be edified?
      Has The Faith come into that Unity?
      Have we all come into the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ, as God intended it?

      I think we can answer no to each and every one of those.

      I am very concerned that our modern day “apostles” do not measure up to the biblical standards and responsibilities of their office and calling.

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      David Lewayne Porter
      Read the verse carefully… no where does it state that all the role have to exist for the body to be perfected…

      When the body of Christ was in its first days It needed ground breakers Apostles and Prophets…. as the scripture came together that foundation was laid… now the remaining roles are not laying the foundation of the written word of God… it is the evangelist pastor and teacher that start building on top of that foundation so we can measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ….

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      David Lewayne Porter

      Is the office of apostle fully applied and complete?
      I read it carefully.

      So you don’t believe in prophets today either?

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      The roles of Apostle and Prophets are completed… they did there part in the perfecting of the saints… by giving us the revealed word of God….

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      David Lewayne Porter

      Bible reference to their completion please sir.
      Bible text matters, not opinions.
      Is there a biblical reference to their ending and the fact that you had all five during the fledgling church era and they would not be needed now?

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      David Lewayne Porter

      Revealed Word of God,
      So what do you do with
      John 21:25
      And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

      There is still a need for apostles and prophets, a plentiful need.

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      Paul says that the apostles played a key role in establishing the church: “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets (the bible), Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20). Elsewhere, Paul declares that he himself laid the foundation: “According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as an expert architect I laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon; But let each man see how he overbuilds “(1 Cor. 3:10). Apparently, the foundation has already been cast and cement has been dry for two millennia in other words the Bible is the full revelation of God. l these passages indicate that the apostle’s ministry is no longer required, unless the bible is not complete then we still need Apostles and Prophets to continue giving revelation not found in Scripture…

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      Paul said that all the apostles have seen the risen Lord: “Then he appeared to James; Then to all the apostles “(1 Cor. 15:7).

      Paul writes that there was an end for those who are called apostles by the risen Lord, and Paul was the last apostle. “And I am the last of them all, as to an aboriginal, appeared unto me” (1 Cor. 15: 8). What other than “last” did Paul mean when he said “the last of all”? The clear testimony of Scripture is that after the Apostle Paul no one saw the risen Lord. Any attempt to distort Scripture to say anything else is a violation of the text. A true apostle must affirm the Scriptures. A denial at this point is fatally supportive of an alleged apostle.

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      David Lewayne Porter

      You said, and I quote you,
      *”Paul writes that there was an end for those who are called apostles by the risen Lord, and Paul was the last apostle. “And I am the last of them all, as to an aboriginal, appeared unto me” (1 Cor. 15: 8). What other than “last” did Paul mean when he said “the last of all”?*

      Paul did not say he was the last one of “any and all” the apostles.
      He said 1 Corinthians 15:8,
      “And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time”.
      You do realize that Paul said that, not in order to explain the office and timing of an apostle, but to validate his calling, ministry, and spiritual knowledge/insight. The church at Corinth was calling his knowledge and authority into question.

      If you hold to your explanation as stated previously then I must hear you explain why those that are being converted today during our era as a direct contact with Jesus (as recorded in Acts 9 and Paul) are not also apostles? I do hope that you have heard of these appearances occurring in foreign lands to nonchristians.

      In light of that are there more guidelines you hold people to and use to disallow these people from being apostles?

      An apostle is
      GR652 apostolos ap-os’-tol-os
      from 649; a delegate; specially, an ambassador of the Gospel;
      officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”) (with miraculous
      powers):–apostle, messenger, he that is sent.

      You have not addressed modern day prophets.

  • Reply January 24, 2017

    Russell A. Morris

    To answer the question in the original post, many of the persons I have seen touting the title “apostle” or “prophet” have merely assumed it themselves or had it bestowed by someone of the same ilk. Charisma and other such magazines are filled with advertisements promoting the ministry of such persons. That said, many use the title “bishop” in the same way. I have no academic data to support a specific percentage, but from personal observation, many of the persons in question use the title as though it adds legitimacy, credibility, or that “extra level” of spirituality to their ministry. As such, it becomes a mere marketing tool.

  • Reply January 25, 2017

    Street Preacherz

    Bothers and able ministers, grace and peace, joy and gladness, faith and patience, prevailing prayer, trials and great rejoicing in Christ our Lord
    I have noticed he has some of the brethren use the title Apostle. Is it out of order to ask in which context this title is applied in the modern age? And what are the marks of a true Apostle? If I may offer a few they are:
    1. Sent by God with a revelation to the church.
    2. A pioneer sent by God to establish churches.
    3. Authority to ordain and set elders and pastor’s in the Churches.
    4. Judge among the brethren as to sound doctrine and heresy.
    I know the scholars will help in this. What is the Biblical criteria for the new testament Apostle? What is the standard? It may be unsavoury but necessary to address in these last days. I have the utmost respect for the minister of Christ and the man of God. Title, gifting, calling, I think there are many here who know these types. Real ability, real experience, real evidence and yet quiet and yielding. You would never know their power and influence over the dinner table.

    I defer to the body and fellowship in good faith and charity.

    Sincerely… reckoned dead indeed unto sin but alive to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    …your friend, an old soldier, bro joe

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      Hope this helps…

      Have you ever met an apostle? I mean someone who claims to be equal to Peter, James, John, or Paul. Some churches teach the continuation of the apostolic ministry in the present day, while some Christians, in an attempt to avoid a confrontation on the subject, take a side step to say that they are only “filling the apostolic function.” The implication is that Function, somehow, is different from the position, as if such a thing were possible as filling the role of an ambassador without being an ambassador. Where is the authority that supports this?

      What should we think of this? The Bible says that the position of an apostle is not a like any other ministry in the church (speaking of the historic church). “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, then prophets, third teachers, then those who work miracles, then those who heal, those who help, those who administer, those who have tongues” (1 Cor. 12:28, also Ephesians 4:11). The position of apostle of the New Testament is above prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, to name a few. Therefore, a modern apostle proclaims much authority for himself.

      But is this apostolic ministry active in the modern church? How can we know? The answer probably depends on whether the person believes the foundation of the church has already been laid, or whether the foundation is still cast.

      Paul says that the apostles played a key role in establishing the church: “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20). Elsewhere, Paul declares that he himself laid the foundation: “According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as an expert architect I laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon; But let each man see how he overbuilds “(1 Cor. 3:10). Apparently, the foundation has already been cast and cement has been dry for two millennia. But while these passages seem to indicate that the apostle’s ministry is no longer required, some may say that they are not definitive.

      What would happen if some affirmed that they have made the signs that identify them as apostles? Paul claimed this for himself in front of the church of Corinth: “Yet the signs of an apostle have been made among you in all patience, by signs, and wonders” (2 Cor. 12:12). But are these signs enough proof for someone claiming to be an apostle? Paul pointed out that there are false apostles: “For these are false apostles, deceitful workers, who disguise themselves as apostles of Christ” (2 Cor. 11:13). How can we distinguish between a true and a false apostle based on the fact that both affirm that they have performed the signs of an apostle? This in itself, still does not constitute sufficient evidence to affirm or to deny the validity of the ministry of apostle.

      But there is one more detector that we can use, and this can be definitive to reach a conclusion. Paul said that all the apostles have seen the risen Lord: “Then he appeared to James; Then to all the apostles “(1 Cor. 15:7). All we have to do is ask our so-called modern apostles if they have seen the risen Jesus. If they say no, they do not pass the test and they must apologize for their false pretension. But what if they say yes? Paul seems to indicate that he had a special experience in which he ascended into the third heaven and saw the Lord: “It is not expedient for me to boast; But I will come to the visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ, who fourteen years ago (if in the body, I do not know, if I were outside the body, I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven “(2 Cor 12:1-2 ). What if our alleged apostle says he had such an experience? This is not a science project in which we can carry out experiments repetitively. Do we accept his word or not?

      If he says he has seen the Lord, then we know that he is not an apostle, but a liar. How do we know this? Because the Bible says it. Paul writes that there was an end for those who saw the risen Lord, and Paul was the last apostle to see him. “And I am the last of them all, as to an aboriginal, appeared unto me” (1 Cor. 15: 8). What other than “last” did Paul mean when he said “the last of all”? The clear testimony of Scripture is that after the Apostle Paul no one saw the risen Lord. Any attempt to distort Scripture to say anything else is a violation of the text. A true apostle must affirm the Scriptures. A denial at this point is fatally supportive of an alleged apostle.

      The Bible affirms the apostle’s ministry and provides methods for identifying it. Fortunately, it also marks the boundaries within which the apostles served the church. There were no more apostles after Paul. Modern apostles should be classified as false apostles.

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Street Preacherz

      I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I don’t disagree people take authority to themselves. Psalm 2. “They set themselves…” The twelve Apostles of the Lamb are eyewitnesses of his life ministry, suffering, death on a cross and resurrection. I’m probably the last person to talk to about this. But I don’t see any where in the Bible where it’s says Jesus stopped given gifts to men. I would think in this day we need more apostles not less. But as you say with all the ambition pride and deception it defintly “muddies the water”

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      Never said he spot giving gifts to men… the gifts are still active but the role of Apostle is clear in scripture… and after Paul there is no more Apostles…

      I also agree that in this day we need more Apostles… but the scripture mark the clear boundaries…

  • Reply January 25, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Russell A. Morris Perhaps before making the assumption above we need to align with what our AoG official statement on Apostles and Prophets? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/assemblies-of-gods-document-on-apostles-and-prophets/

  • Reply January 25, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    There are 2 important links for the careful leader in th OP above. First off is the original posted in Pentecostal Theology Group by @Jonathan McMonigal‎ on the topic https://www.facebook.com/640123439376008/posts/903117713076578

  • Reply January 25, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Russell A. Morris Second off is the actual AoG official statement on Apostles and Prophets in mobile readable PDF format http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/pp_4195_apostles_prophets.pdf

  • Reply January 25, 2017

    Angel Ruiz

    Have you ever met an apostle? I mean someone who claims to be equal to Peter, James, John, or Paul. Some churches teach the continuation of the apostolic ministry in the present day, while some Christians, in an attempt to avoid a confrontation on the subject, take a side step to say that they are only “filling the apostolic function.” The implication is that Function, somehow, is different from the position, as if such a thing were possible as filling the role of an ambassador without being an ambassador. Where is the authority that supports this?

    What should we think of this? The Bible says that the position of an apostle is not a like any other ministry in the church (speaking of the historic church). “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, then prophets, third teachers, then those who work miracles, then those who heal, those who help, those who administer, those who have tongues” (1 Cor. 12:28, also Ephesians 4:11). The position of apostle of the New Testament is above prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, to name a few. Therefore, a modern apostle proclaims much authority for himself.

    But is this apostolic ministry active in the modern church? How can we know? The answer probably depends on whether the person believes the foundation of the church has already been laid, or whether the foundation is still cast.

    Paul says that the apostles played a key role in establishing the church: “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20). Elsewhere, Paul declares that he himself laid the foundation: “According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as an expert architect I laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon; But let each man see how he overbuilds “(1 Cor. 3:10). Apparently, the foundation has already been cast and cement has been dry for two millennia. But while these passages seem to indicate that the apostle’s ministry is no longer required, some may say that they are not definitive.

    What would happen if some affirmed that they have made the signs that identify them as apostles? Paul claimed this for himself in front of the church of Corinth: “Yet the signs of an apostle have been made among you in all patience, by signs, and wonders” (2 Cor. 12:12). But are these signs enough proof for someone claiming to be an apostle? Paul pointed out that there are false apostles: “For these are false apostles, deceitful workers, who disguise themselves as apostles of Christ” (2 Cor. 11:13). How can we distinguish between a true and a false apostle based on the fact that both affirm that they have performed the signs of an apostle? This in itself, still does not constitute sufficient evidence to affirm or to deny the validity of the ministry of apostle.

    But there is one more detector that we can use, and this can be definitive to reach a conclusion. Paul said that all the apostles have seen the risen Lord: “Then he appeared to James; Then to all the apostles “(1 Cor. 15:7). All we have to do is ask our so-called modern apostles if they have seen the risen Jesus. If they say no, they do not pass the test and they must apologize for their false pretension. But what if they say yes? Paul seems to indicate that he had a special experience in which he ascended into the third heaven and saw the Lord: “It is not expedient for me to boast; But I will come to the visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ, who fourteen years ago (if in the body, I do not know, if I were outside the body, I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven “(2 Cor 12:1-2 ). What if our alleged apostle says he had such an experience? This is not a science project in which we can carry out experiments repetitively. Do we accept his word or not?

    If he says he has seen the Lord, then we know that he is not an apostle, but a liar. How do we know this? Because the Bible says it. Paul writes that there was an end for those who saw the risen Lord, and Paul was the last apostle to see him. “And I am the last of them all, as to an aboriginal, appeared unto me” (1 Cor. 15: 8). What other than “last” did Paul mean when he said “the last of all”? The clear testimony of Scripture is that after the Apostle Paul no one saw the risen Lord. Any attempt to distort Scripture to say anything else is a violation of the text. A true apostle must affirm the Scriptures. A denial at this point is fatally supportive of an alleged apostle.

    The Bible affirms the apostle’s ministry and provides methods for identifying it. Fortunately, it also marks the boundaries within which the apostles served the church. There were no more apostles after Paul. Modern apostles should be classified as false apostles.

  • Reply January 25, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Yes, I’ve met several claiming to be apostles and a few who actually truly are

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      I have also met several… But all have been false when I see what scriptural says…

  • Reply January 25, 2017

    Stan Wayne

    Angel – claiming falsely is right in line with claiming correctly in scripture – both exist side by side –

    But you have the wrong standard – it is not the 12 or Peter that have counterparts today – it is not Paul either who was in his own category as the apostle to gentiles (primary one) –
    Today the counterparts will be to Barnabus, Appolos, Timothy, Titus, James, Jude, Epaphroditus, Andromicus, Junia

    We call them today church planters or missionaries

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      But not Apostles…

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Angel Ruiz the are apostles – Barnabus was and Timothy was and Appolos and this is one of the functions that Christ gave / the title doesn’t matter but the function does

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      The word missionary comes from a Latin word for “send” or apostolize (misi)

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      So let’s call these modern pioneers “missionaries”

      The problems is that in this day in age people are claiming to be on the same platform as Peter and Paul…

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Angel Ruiz we do but then we should call Barnabus and Timothy missionaries as well

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Varnel Watson

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      Stan Wayne I don’t see a problem with that… Or maybe we can say Timothy was a Pastor…

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Angel Ruiz Timothy is mistakenly called a pastor – he was a junior apostle who like Titus would move on once the church was set in order

    • Reply January 25, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Look!!!
      “Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.”
      ‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭ESV‬‬
      “Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ.”
      ‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:6‬ ‭ESV‬‬

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      That’s a big stretch

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Barnabus and many others are called apostles – not just the 12

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      19 total in the NT

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Besides the 12 and Matthias who do you count?

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      Barnabus, Junia, Priscilla and Aquila off top of my head

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      Don’t forget the two disciples on there way to Emaus…

  • Reply January 26, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Eleven are named in Acts 1:13, “Peter and John, and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James. “ Judas Iscariot, one of the original twelve, the one who betrayed Jesus, is not named in that list. That’s the original twelve. Then add Matthias who replaced Judas Iscariot to become one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb (Acts 1:26).

    James, the half brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem church—Galatians 1:19

    Barnabas–Acts 14:14

    Paul–Acts 14:14 and many other references

    Apollos– Corinthians 4:6-9

    Timothy and Silvanus– I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6

    Epaphroditus–Philippians 2:25. While the King James Version translates the word as “messenger”, the Greek word (apostolon) is actually “apostle”.

    Two unnamed apostles–Second Corinthians 8:23. A brother of fame among the churches, and a brother tested–“As for our brethren, they are messengers of the churches, a glory to Christ.” Again, the Greek word is “apostoloi” but is translated here as “messengers”.

    These nine now make a total of 22 (13 + 9 = 22).

    + Andronicus and Junia–Romans 16:7 “Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.”

  • Reply January 26, 2017

    Stan Wayne

    I also add Adronicus and Junia :

    “Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and fellow-captives, who are of note among the apostles; who were also in Christ before me.”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭

  • Reply January 26, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    + Priscilla and Aquila

  • Reply January 26, 2017

    Stan Wayne

    Also Jesus: “Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Jesus,”
    ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:1‬

    😉

  • Reply January 26, 2017

    Stan Wayne

    Timothy is in so Titus and all Paul’s companions such as Mark Silas Luke would be

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Varnel Watson

      Paul dropped the bomb on Mark early in his ministry. Luke was a Doctor but not an apostle. Not all doctors are apostles and vice-versa …

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Mark bounced back with Barny and even Paul and Peter

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Doctors and gospel writers can be apostles

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      The false and implied True apostles of Ephesus:,

      I know thy works and thy labour, and thine endurance, and that thou canst not bear evil men; and thou hast tried them who say that themselves are apostles and are not, and hast found them liars;”
      ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      Stan Wayne you must have a neopentecostal perspective on moder day Apostles… I can see your need to have everyone be an Apostle in scripture… but regardless of how many you find Paul is clear that he is the last of them all…

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      I attend a Spanish A/G and was ordained A/G and graduated A/G seminary but if you read the Chinese saint Watchman Nee on apostles referenced above it will help you your whole life see things you never saw before

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      U are AG but you don’t agree with AG…? AG says that those who claim the existence of moder day Prophets and Apostles is outside ortodoxos faith and understanding…

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      The statements is an opinion based on NAR abuses and personal prophecy and whatnot – most AG students of Bible who are intelligent believe missionaries who are truly sent by God to start churches are apostles in a biblical sense but that the term has lost its meaning because of idiotic fanatics

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      AG position statements are not fundamentals

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      But they are resolutions

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      No

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      They are studies – no voting

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      But even that poorly worded statement is not about missionaries but about NAR styled prophets and apostles who claim authority

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      True apostles have authority only over the church they are planting – read Nee

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Ag ministers agree to teach the 16 Fundamentals and 4 Cardinal truths (even those are ignored sadly) but the position papers are not binding – just guidance

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      All AG Position statements on a controversial issues, a study is done and a report given to the General Presbytery for approval as an official position statement of The General Council of the Assemblies of God…

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      Angel Ruiz yes I have been AG a long time – the General Presbyters opinions (usually one writer is asked – I have known a few) are not binding – it is an opinion – if you respect it take it otherwise leave it

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Stan Wayne

      They are off on a few things – they overreacted to Manifested Sons and Branhamites etc

    • Reply January 26, 2017

      Angel Ruiz

      Its more than an opinion… Its an official Statement

  • Reply January 26, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    + Stan Wayne of the apostolic office of John Wayne, apostle to the cowboys 🙂

  • Reply January 27, 2017

    Fr. Timothy Cremeens, PhD

    In the Eastern Orthodox tradition we have 3 categories of Apostles: 1). The 12 (chosen by Jesus), 2). The 70 (sent out by Jesus), 3). “Equal to the Apostles” (such as Mary Magdalene, Patrick of Ireland, Nina of Georgia, Innocant of North America).

    The Church is very hesitant to give the title “Apostle” to someone who has not yet “finished the race”.

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