Acts 2:14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven

Posted by Библията Тв in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Acts 2:14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice

“Asking me to sit down while I delivered the Sunday message is like asking an Italian to talk without using his hands!” – Todd Burpo (Heaven is For Real).

Asking me to preach with in a quite voice, when I talk about His goodness and all He’s done for me… #PENTECOSTAL Alan Link Steve Steve

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 2:13 PM]
Peter didn’t have a microphone, either. 🙂 He might have talked a little quieter in a small room talking to 10 people than outside in Jerusalem on one of the feast days.

It’s okay with me if people want to preach really loud as long as they don’t hurt our ear drums. It’s okay with me if people want to preach a little more quietly as lon gas everyone can hear.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 2:28 PM]
early Pentecostals did not have microphones either…

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 2:33 PM]
John Kissinger And yelling made a lot of sense if they were speaking to large crowds. I suppose some of the oratory styles of saying “And uh, let me tell yu today uh…” evolved as people were trying to project their voice over large crowds. And some people thought that was THE way to preach, so they’d do that to crowds of 15 people.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 2:35 PM]
seems like they all understood and “Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?”

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 4:51 PM]
I shout when I preach because His Kingdom is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost! Two thirds of His kingdom is EMOTION, and I choose to pursue it…emotionally!

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 5:44 PM]
There is more to peace than emotion. But there are also times of silent.

I heard a man say once he’d visited churches where they said, “People get more excited at a football game than you guys.” He said, ‘Why should church be like a football game?’

There are times it is good to rejoice before the Lord. There are also times to be silent, to be still and to know that he is God. And someone can have peace and joy without shouting every minute. This is another area where ‘cultural packaging’ is an issue.

I think we’ve all seen emotional preachers, even some who could stir up a crowd, who didn’t share much content. Some churches are just loud and enthusiastic. It’s their culture.

There are some more ’emotional’ preachers in Indonesia… compared to other Indonesians. But the loud almost hyperventilating style isn’t as popular there as it is with some of the Pentecostals in the Southeast in the US. I was visiting a church, I guess it was more Charismatic than Pentecostal. They’ve got their own denomination. One of the speakers was from a Pentecostal type independent church in the US.

But they had a speaker from Africa. I’d seen how enthusiastic some African peachers and audiences could be when I was invited to a service at a prison. This man was preaching really loud and enthusiastically about how bad Paul was before conversion. The Asian audience was just sitting there. It wasn’t their culture to go wild or stand up and say amen. And he was talking about how bad Paul was. It wouldn’t have been shouting material in an enthusiastic crowd in the US, but maybe it was where he came from. I could tell he looked worried and confused. He wasn’t getting the crowd excited. It looked like a commedian bombing on stage who looked worried. People in Indonesia just normally don’t go wild like T.D. Jakes church. He finished his message and got off the stage.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a crowd clap or give a standing ovation and start shouting while a preacher was preaching at a Pentecostal church anywhere in Korea or Indonesia. Indonesian Lutherans and Reformed describe Pentecostal churches as churches where people ‘clap their hands.’ But that’s during the music, and maybe when is introduced.

I know some Pentecostals think that if a church isn’t that emotionally lively that it is ‘dead.’ But really, if we look in the Bible, is there any reason to think that they had the music pumping and peoe getting excited like we do on Solomon’s porch or in Aquilla and Priscilla’s house, or that Paul yelled really loud or tried to stir the crowd up to shout?

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 5:55 PM]
Nope. I’ve seen it in just about every Pentecostal church around the world. Not just the South East and not just English speaking

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 5:57 PM]
Clapping and standing up and shouting during sermons? What parts of Asia have you been to. I didn’t see it on my trips to the world’s largest church in Yoido. I can’t remember seeing it in 9 years in Indonesia at any of the GBI’s (COGs) there.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 5:58 PM]
Seen in in many conservative Chinese congregations. And at the Assemblies of God church led by Yongi Cho. #Pentecostalism is emotional

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 5:59 PM]
I’ve seen everyone praying in tongues at the same time at Yoido and at some of the GBI churches in Indonesia. They told them to in Indonesia. I don’t remember at Yoido. I was wearing a headset and listening to a translator there.

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 6:00 PM]
We could argue about what is or what is not Pentecostal, but does it really matter. The issue is what God wants, or if certain things are okay with God but there is a lot of flexibility.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 6:00 PM]
Crying, clapping, laughing, jumping, running, shaken by the power of God, carried around the room on their knees. Now you know my ABCs

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 6:03 PM]
How much emphasis does the Bible place on those things? Isn’t it better to focus on the things the Bible focuses on? There is some clapping in the Psalms. I can’t find anything in the Bible about people being carried around the room on their knees (why are you carrying them btw), or holy laughter for that matter.

When we gather together, we are to have fellowship with the body of Christ and edify one another.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 6:03 PM]
The issue is that I am yet to see a human body that can contain the power of God without any external expressions. While many/most bapticostals will argue that one can contain the power of God unemotionally THUS making the sovereignty of God a subject to the human will. If you can control it, it simpley aint under the utterance of the Spirit Timothy Alan

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 6:12 PM]
John Kissinger I don’t find this philosophy of yours in the Bible. In fact, Paul’s words, “If any man consider himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that hte words that I write to you are the commandments of the Lord”

just might have been pre-emptively aimed at someone who would have made the same type of argument– that he had no control over whether he could speak in tongues or prophesy. Paul had just told the prophets to be quiet when someone else recieved a revelation. Maybe the speaking prophet could have continued on and genuinely prophesied, but he was to let the one sitting by prophesy because ‘ye may all prophesy one by one…’. And the speaker in tongues might not have wanted to be silent if he saw that there was no intepreter. Paul might have been pre-emptively attacking the argument that he couldn’t speak in tongues because he couldn’t contai it.

Surely the ‘Pentecostal’ stuff in the Bible is more important than the ‘Pentecostal’ stuff from certain church traditions.

Paul tells someone who could, if he chose, to speak in tongues, to keep quiet in the church. I’ve never head any Baptists on this. Some Pentecostals the A/G do. The denominational pages address this issue.

I’m not against power encounters, but I don’t see that as what the Bible focuses on in terms of church meetings. That’s the downside of some Petecostal thinking– the excessie focus on wanting to have some kind of emotional experience. I’m not against experiences with God or emotions But I think this sort of thinking is why some folks think they are far from God if they don’t feel a certain way when they sing in church. Then there are worship leaders who emphasize it.

You can get churches that focus so much on feelngs and emotion, but they don’t focus those energies on the work of the Spirit that the Bible focuses our attention on. We are supposed to covet to prophesy. The Bible doesn’t say to covet to feel like you re going to explode. I’m not saying a power-encounter with the Spirit couldn’t make you feel that way, even in church. I’m saying we need to focus on what the Bible directs us to focus on, especially in church. People can also experience all kinds of stuff in their private prayer life.

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 6:27 PM]
I choose to be loyal to the Holy Ghost and the word of God over Pentecostal denominational traditions when there is a conflict.

Charles Page [11/04/2015 6:44 PM]
yet our role model for pulpit proclamation is Jesus in the synagogue. He stood at the pulpit and read from the text handed to him. It was Isaiah and when he read he sat down and then he preached, “this day is this fulfilled in your midst…”

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 6:59 PM]
I don’t remember the part in the Sermon on the Mount about the audience not being excited enough and how they needed to shout for a while either.

My wife went to a COG (GBI) Bible college, and someone taught the worship leaders not to insult the audience and tell them how dead they looked. In the US, I’ve heard people tell the audience they look like they’d been baptized in lemon juice.

Charles Page [11/04/2015 7:11 PM]
CoG worship service are demeaning to the serious inquirer.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 7:16 PM]
Timothy Carter may be they just got sprinkled with lemon juice

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 7:20 PM]
I read that wrong and thought you said Timothy Carter got sprinkled with lemon juice.

I just read the Bible. It doesn’t make sense to me for people to emphaize so much things the Bible doesn’t emphasize or even talk about, as if that is what their faith is all about.

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 7:30 PM]
I’ve gone to some of the ‘Holiness’ churches, but I was influenced growing up by A/G churches I went to. There was some emphasis on enthusiasm, and here were people who’d stand up and clap in some churches, but not in others. But I can’t remember hearing the football game thing in an A/G church. I heard that in the ‘Holiness’ churches in the Southeast.

I don’t remember going to an A/G church and someone just starts shouting all by herself all excited and worked up during the worship service. There might be some A/G’s, especially in the Southeast, where, when the time comes for the congrgation to pray, everyone prays at the same time out loud. I’ve seen that in the ‘Holiness’ churches ithe Southest. I’ve seen a little collective speaking in tongues in an A/G (here recently in Hawaii), but that doesn’t really line up with what the A/G teaches.

The A/G is Pentecostal, too. You can probably hear the excitement at the football game line at some A/Gs, but it seems more likely in the ‘Holiness’ wing of the Pentecostal movement. There me some A/Gs where everyone prays at the same time together, especially in the Southeast.

And by ‘Holiness’ I don’t mean anyone is more or less holy. I’m using it more like Vincent Synan. I’m talking about the churches that came out of the Hoiness movement that used to believe in (or still do) the idea that sanctification is one-time experiential thing after you get saved. Also, churches where preachers might describe themselves as ‘Holiness preachers.’ I’ve never heard an A/G preacher call himself that. But I’ve heard a COG preacer sayhat, and of course Pentecostal denominations with ‘Holiness’ in the title might say that.

I’ve also noticed that some of the churches that aren’t a part of the Pentecostal subcultures I’m talking about have people who really operate in gifts of the Spirit, too, even if they don’t have leaders trying to get them emotonally worked up during the service.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 7:34 PM]
Link I’m reading your confession here “I don’t remember going to an A/G church and someone just starts shouting” and I am getting more and more convinced you’ve never been to a Pentecostal church

Charles Page [11/04/2015 8:03 PM]
While directing a CoG Servicemen’s Center in Turkey a young airman attended our Center and chapel Pentecostal fellowship.

He was right from Ann Arbor, a Catholic Charismatic and he quickly assimilated into our work. He was planning to enter the priesthood. He was a genuine Spirit-filled young man and was thoroughly familiar with Charismatic/Pentecostal worship.

He served on the Center council as a ‘deacon’. I learned from him and we had a good working relationship. There a chaplian’s assistant who served in an installation capacity, he was also Catholic Charismatic. There was an Anglican/Episcopal chaplain and he was Charismatic. This all began in 1974 and these people were terrific people who influenced me greatly. I was there almost 5 years. I cultivated a good understanding of Charismatic movement.

Timothy Carter [11/04/2015 8:22 PM]
That sounds like a good experience 🙂

37 Comments

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Whos the orthodox 12th? Mathias OR Paul Randal W Deese

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Mathias

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      How does Paul come into the picture? Most Pentecostals dont even know who Mathias was

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Troy Day

      Paul acknowledges Matthias

      1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      How is this relevant?

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Troy Day

      Proving he isn’t 12th

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      hm makes some sense

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Link Hudson

      Seen of the 12 before being seen of Paul. Judas was dead when Jesus appeared to the 12. Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, while the 12 would sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Lol that’s funny right here Link I’m reading your confession here “I don’t remember going to an A/G church and someone just starts shouting” and I am getting more and more convinced you’ve never been to a Pentecostal church

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Link Hudson

    I am wondering if you have been stuck in a little Cleveland religious bubble. I have heard CG people get worked up and shout. Have heard AoG preachers shout messages. I am talking about the individual person shouting frm the pew. Shouting out a tongue and interpretation in a big A/G, yes. I used to go to Family Worship Center in Baton Rouge before the scandal and break with the A/G. They taught tongues in church were to be interpreted. Then a couple of A/Gs in suburban Atlanta in Gwinnett county. I was on the Teen Bible Quiz team for Evange. Went to nationals twice I think. You can look up online.

    The only time I recall tongues without interpretation in the service at Evangel was when the pastor laid hands on a woman who wanted to be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

    I never saw revving up the crowd to be emotional like at a football game at Evangel. I might have seen everyone praying in tongues at the same time or just in English when our quiz team visit Murrayville A/G after districts. They were more like a country CoG (Cleveland). I did not hear tongues or shouting at Lawrenceville COG when I went there for about 6 months. That was all the mid ’80s through 1990.

    Some of the Foursquares are rather chill too and aren’t into working up emotions like southeastern Holiness Pentecostalism.

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      I have been to many kinds of Pentecostal churches and denominations… My experience with the church of God and with the Assemblies of God is they were both very low-key… Which was disappointing for me

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      that makes you hyper orthodox 🙂

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Troy Day No, it makes me orthodox Pentecostal

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      aint no such a thing until you said it 🙂

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Troy Day

      Hahaha… and?

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Randal W Deese

      Well, now you know… lol

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    #LOL Link I’m 4th gen AG what are you talking about

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Link Hudson

      Are you in the COG denomination now?

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Why would you assume that?

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Link Hudson

      Defensiveness over any reference to COG.

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Some dude posted their practical commitments and I simply asked how does it apply to ministers, missionaries and members who drink socially. Whats the big deal to answer? Arent you one of them right now?

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Link Hudson

      Very unclear last question. The A/G denomination did not send me out, and I don’t drink socially.

      I do believe we should accept what the Bible teaches about alcohol, which is to oppose the excessive use of it, but Jesus drank, so we should not condemn its use in moderation.

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      You are AG too now? 🙂 DIdnt you say you worked at indonesian cog too ? I cant imagine they defend social drinking either oh well who cares anyway

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Link Hudson

      I’ve been going to one here recently.

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      Do they believe in apostles ?

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Link Hudson

      I haven’t heard anything about that. Seems pretty standard A/G in terms of style based on my experience, with hipper songs, a bit, from when I was a kid rather than the mix of choruses with hymns, and no speaking in tongues at the same time. But i haven’t heard tongues and interpretation in the meeting. Maybe that’s ‘standard A/G’ these days.

    • Reply March 4, 2018

      Varnel Watson

      oh AG – I saw you say indonesian cog bethel?

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    I hold Mathias was never really in ministry Certainly not after Acts ch 9 Randal W Deese

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Link Hudson

    Troy Day Why would you engage about such speculation about the ministry and reputation of a man the other eleven apostles and Paul acknowledge as one of the 12 apostles? Do you have a time machine?

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    We meet Matthias after Jesus had ascended back to heaven. About 120 disciples gathered in Jerusalem for fellowship and prayer, awaiting Jesus’ promise of His Holy Spirit (John 14:16–17; Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4–8). Peter, knowing the Scriptures were to be fulfilled, proposed that another man be chosen to take Judas Iscariot’s place among the Twelve to maintain their number and their ministry. Peter based his suggestion on Psalm 109:8, “May another take his place of leadership,” and Psalm 69:25, “May their place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in their tents” (cf. Acts 1:20–26).

    Matthias and Joseph (also called Justus and Barsabbas) were selected as candidates for this particular ministry, as both met the qualifications laid out by Peter. Both Matthias and Joseph had been faithful followers of Jesus “the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us” (Acts 1:21–22). The gospels do not mention these two disciples by name, but we know there were at least 72 other men, besides the Twelve, whom the Lord had commissioned for ministry (Luke 10:1). The details of Matthias’s and Joseph’s faithfulness are hidden from our view. Yet Peter and the others were familiar with these men, and their constant, faithful discipleship made them stand out as worthy candidates to “become a witness with [the apostles] of his resurrection” (Acts 1:22).

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Link Hudson

    Troy Day Why would Paul being called (presumably your reference to Acts 9) make Matthias not really be in ministry?

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Trusting that God’s hand in the lot the other apostles received Matthias as the replacement for Judas (Acts 1:24–26). Nothing else is known of Matthias; he is not mentioned again in the Bible. We do not have any other Biblical information about him

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Link Hudson

    How much Biblical information do we have of most of those apostles? What did Bartholemew and Simon the Zealot do after Acts1 according to the Bible?

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Various traditions have developed to fill in the details of the future ministry of Matthias. One says that Matthias evangelized in Ethiopia, where he was martyred. Another says that Matthias traveled to Damascus and later died in Judea. A third tradition says that Matthias spent most of his time in Jerusalem, where he eventually died. It’s impossible for us to know the truth regarding Matthias’s later ministry, since the Bible does not give us any information about him after his selection to the Twelve.

  • Reply March 4, 2018

    Link Hudson

    The Bible dpes the same with mosr of the other individuals of the 12. And there are traditions about what they did too.

  • Reply March 5, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    You are missing the point. The other 11 are well established by Jesus himself. It is the 12th that did not come until Acts we are discussing

  • Reply March 5, 2018

    Link Hudson

    Troy Day Jesus opened the minds of the apostles to understand the scripture. Peter proposed filling Judas’ place based on interpretation of scripture. The other 11 apparently acknowledged Mattias, and so did Paul, implicitly. John saw the names of 12 apostles of the Lamb on the foundations in his vision, not 11. What is the motivation for want to exclude him?

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Acts 2:14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven

Posted by in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Acts 2:14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice

“Asking me to sit down while I delivered the Sunday message is like asking an Italian to talk without using his hands!” – Todd Burpo (Heaven is For Real).

Asking me to preach with in a quite voice, when I talk about His goodness and all He’s done for me… #PENTECOSTAL Alan Link Steve Steve

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 2:13 PM]
Peter didn’t have a microphone, either. 🙂 He might have talked a little quieter in a small room talking to 10 people than outside in Jerusalem on one of the feast days.

It’s okay with me if people want to preach really loud as long as they don’t hurt our ear drums. It’s okay with me if people want to preach a little more quietly as lon gas everyone can hear.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 2:28 PM]
early Pentecostals did not have microphones either…

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 2:33 PM]
John Kissinger And yelling made a lot of sense if they were speaking to large crowds. I suppose some of the oratory styles of saying “And uh, let me tell yu today uh…” evolved as people were trying to project their voice over large crowds. And some people thought that was THE way to preach, so they’d do that to crowds of 15 people.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 2:35 PM]
seems like they all understood and “Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?”

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 4:51 PM]
I shout when I preach because His Kingdom is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost! Two thirds of His kingdom is EMOTION, and I choose to pursue it…emotionally!

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 5:44 PM]
There is more to peace than emotion. But there are also times of silent.

I heard a man say once he’d visited churches where they said, “People get more excited at a football game than you guys.” He said, ‘Why should church be like a football game?’

There are times it is good to rejoice before the Lord. There are also times to be silent, to be still and to know that he is God. And someone can have peace and joy without shouting every minute. This is another area where ‘cultural packaging’ is an issue.

I think we’ve all seen emotional preachers, even some who could stir up a crowd, who didn’t share much content. Some churches are just loud and enthusiastic. It’s their culture.

There are some more ’emotional’ preachers in Indonesia… compared to other Indonesians. But the loud almost hyperventilating style isn’t as popular there as it is with some of the Pentecostals in the Southeast in the US. I was visiting a church, I guess it was more Charismatic than Pentecostal. They’ve got their own denomination. One of the speakers was from a Pentecostal type independent church in the US.

But they had a speaker from Africa. I’d seen how enthusiastic some African peachers and audiences could be when I was invited to a service at a prison. This man was preaching really loud and enthusiastically about how bad Paul was before conversion. The Asian audience was just sitting there. It wasn’t their culture to go wild or stand up and say amen. And he was talking about how bad Paul was. It wouldn’t have been shouting material in an enthusiastic crowd in the US, but maybe it was where he came from. I could tell he looked worried and confused. He wasn’t getting the crowd excited. It looked like a commedian bombing on stage who looked worried. People in Indonesia just normally don’t go wild like T.D. Jakes church. He finished his message and got off the stage.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a crowd clap or give a standing ovation and start shouting while a preacher was preaching at a Pentecostal church anywhere in Korea or Indonesia. Indonesian Lutherans and Reformed describe Pentecostal churches as churches where people ‘clap their hands.’ But that’s during the music, and maybe when is introduced.

I know some Pentecostals think that if a church isn’t that emotionally lively that it is ‘dead.’ But really, if we look in the Bible, is there any reason to think that they had the music pumping and peoe getting excited like we do on Solomon’s porch or in Aquilla and Priscilla’s house, or that Paul yelled really loud or tried to stir the crowd up to shout?

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 5:55 PM]
Nope. I’ve seen it in just about every Pentecostal church around the world. Not just the South East and not just English speaking

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 5:57 PM]
Clapping and standing up and shouting during sermons? What parts of Asia have you been to. I didn’t see it on my trips to the world’s largest church in Yoido. I can’t remember seeing it in 9 years in Indonesia at any of the GBI’s (COGs) there.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 5:58 PM]
Seen in in many conservative Chinese congregations. And at the Assemblies of God church led by Yongi Cho. #Pentecostalism is emotional

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 5:59 PM]
I’ve seen everyone praying in tongues at the same time at Yoido and at some of the GBI churches in Indonesia. They told them to in Indonesia. I don’t remember at Yoido. I was wearing a headset and listening to a translator there.

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 6:00 PM]
We could argue about what is or what is not Pentecostal, but does it really matter. The issue is what God wants, or if certain things are okay with God but there is a lot of flexibility.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 6:00 PM]
Crying, clapping, laughing, jumping, running, shaken by the power of God, carried around the room on their knees. Now you know my ABCs

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 6:03 PM]
How much emphasis does the Bible place on those things? Isn’t it better to focus on the things the Bible focuses on? There is some clapping in the Psalms. I can’t find anything in the Bible about people being carried around the room on their knees (why are you carrying them btw), or holy laughter for that matter.

When we gather together, we are to have fellowship with the body of Christ and edify one another.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 6:03 PM]
The issue is that I am yet to see a human body that can contain the power of God without any external expressions. While many/most bapticostals will argue that one can contain the power of God unemotionally THUS making the sovereignty of God a subject to the human will. If you can control it, it simpley aint under the utterance of the Spirit Timothy Alan

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 6:12 PM]
John Kissinger I don’t find this philosophy of yours in the Bible. In fact, Paul’s words, “If any man consider himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that hte words that I write to you are the commandments of the Lord”

just might have been pre-emptively aimed at someone who would have made the same type of argument– that he had no control over whether he could speak in tongues or prophesy. Paul had just told the prophets to be quiet when someone else recieved a revelation. Maybe the speaking prophet could have continued on and genuinely prophesied, but he was to let the one sitting by prophesy because ‘ye may all prophesy one by one…’. And the speaker in tongues might not have wanted to be silent if he saw that there was no intepreter. Paul might have been pre-emptively attacking the argument that he couldn’t speak in tongues because he couldn’t contai it.

Surely the ‘Pentecostal’ stuff in the Bible is more important than the ‘Pentecostal’ stuff from certain church traditions.

Paul tells someone who could, if he chose, to speak in tongues, to keep quiet in the church. I’ve never head any Baptists on this. Some Pentecostals the A/G do. The denominational pages address this issue.

I’m not against power encounters, but I don’t see that as what the Bible focuses on in terms of church meetings. That’s the downside of some Petecostal thinking– the excessie focus on wanting to have some kind of emotional experience. I’m not against experiences with God or emotions But I think this sort of thinking is why some folks think they are far from God if they don’t feel a certain way when they sing in church. Then there are worship leaders who emphasize it.

You can get churches that focus so much on feelngs and emotion, but they don’t focus those energies on the work of the Spirit that the Bible focuses our attention on. We are supposed to covet to prophesy. The Bible doesn’t say to covet to feel like you re going to explode. I’m not saying a power-encounter with the Spirit couldn’t make you feel that way, even in church. I’m saying we need to focus on what the Bible directs us to focus on, especially in church. People can also experience all kinds of stuff in their private prayer life.

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 6:27 PM]
I choose to be loyal to the Holy Ghost and the word of God over Pentecostal denominational traditions when there is a conflict.

Charles Page [11/04/2015 6:44 PM]
yet our role model for pulpit proclamation is Jesus in the synagogue. He stood at the pulpit and read from the text handed to him. It was Isaiah and when he read he sat down and then he preached, “this day is this fulfilled in your midst…”

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 6:59 PM]
I don’t remember the part in the Sermon on the Mount about the audience not being excited enough and how they needed to shout for a while either.

My wife went to a COG (GBI) Bible college, and someone taught the worship leaders not to insult the audience and tell them how dead they looked. In the US, I’ve heard people tell the audience they look like they’d been baptized in lemon juice.

Charles Page [11/04/2015 7:11 PM]
CoG worship service are demeaning to the serious inquirer.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 7:16 PM]
Timothy Carter may be they just got sprinkled with lemon juice

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 7:20 PM]
I read that wrong and thought you said Timothy Carter got sprinkled with lemon juice.

I just read the Bible. It doesn’t make sense to me for people to emphaize so much things the Bible doesn’t emphasize or even talk about, as if that is what their faith is all about.

Link Hudson [11/04/2015 7:30 PM]
I’ve gone to some of the ‘Holiness’ churches, but I was influenced growing up by A/G churches I went to. There was some emphasis on enthusiasm, and here were people who’d stand up and clap in some churches, but not in others. But I can’t remember hearing the football game thing in an A/G church. I heard that in the ‘Holiness’ churches in the Southeast.

I don’t remember going to an A/G church and someone just starts shouting all by herself all excited and worked up during the worship service. There might be some A/G’s, especially in the Southeast, where, when the time comes for the congrgation to pray, everyone prays at the same time out loud. I’ve seen that in the ‘Holiness’ churches ithe Southest. I’ve seen a little collective speaking in tongues in an A/G (here recently in Hawaii), but that doesn’t really line up with what the A/G teaches.

The A/G is Pentecostal, too. You can probably hear the excitement at the football game line at some A/Gs, but it seems more likely in the ‘Holiness’ wing of the Pentecostal movement. There me some A/Gs where everyone prays at the same time together, especially in the Southeast.

And by ‘Holiness’ I don’t mean anyone is more or less holy. I’m using it more like Vincent Synan. I’m talking about the churches that came out of the Hoiness movement that used to believe in (or still do) the idea that sanctification is one-time experiential thing after you get saved. Also, churches where preachers might describe themselves as ‘Holiness preachers.’ I’ve never heard an A/G preacher call himself that. But I’ve heard a COG preacer sayhat, and of course Pentecostal denominations with ‘Holiness’ in the title might say that.

I’ve also noticed that some of the churches that aren’t a part of the Pentecostal subcultures I’m talking about have people who really operate in gifts of the Spirit, too, even if they don’t have leaders trying to get them emotonally worked up during the service.

John Kissinger [11/04/2015 7:34 PM]
Link I’m reading your confession here “I don’t remember going to an A/G church and someone just starts shouting” and I am getting more and more convinced you’ve never been to a Pentecostal church

Charles Page [11/04/2015 8:03 PM]
While directing a CoG Servicemen’s Center in Turkey a young airman attended our Center and chapel Pentecostal fellowship.

He was right from Ann Arbor, a Catholic Charismatic and he quickly assimilated into our work. He was planning to enter the priesthood. He was a genuine Spirit-filled young man and was thoroughly familiar with Charismatic/Pentecostal worship.

He served on the Center council as a ‘deacon’. I learned from him and we had a good working relationship. There a chaplian’s assistant who served in an installation capacity, he was also Catholic Charismatic. There was an Anglican/Episcopal chaplain and he was Charismatic. This all began in 1974 and these people were terrific people who influenced me greatly. I was there almost 5 years. I cultivated a good understanding of Charismatic movement.

Timothy Carter [11/04/2015 8:22 PM]
That sounds like a good experience 🙂

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