Abandoning your roots or rethinking your theology

Posted by Troy Day in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Abandoning your roots VS rethinking your theology

Abandoning your roots VS rethinking your theology
If you are going to come against one’s ecclesial convictions like
Link does against Speaking in tongues (vs Baptist)
Henry does against Pentecostal theology (vs Reforfmed)
Peter against Church leadership
and Charles against Church’s historical mer… /etc/

Troy DayYou Something for Christians to consider and think about in this election season …
Robert Borders Theology can be evolving without having strong roots. The Holy Spirit can lead us into truth.
Troy DayYou Unfortunately the trend today is abandoning faith roots without much  Theology   evolving – and more often even without any  Theology at all
Robert Borders My biggest evolution in process relates to ecclesiology and eschetology.
Troy DayYou Hope you are not NAR and Kingdom now
Robert Borders There are many different views within NAR which I am not involved with. Peter Wagner died two days ago and will be sadly missed by the Body of Christ even if not part of the NAR. Peter is a good example of how one’s theology can change over a lifetime based upon research and study as well as personal experience.
Troy DayYou Yes you are right brother
Bibliata Net The pseudo theology proposing initial evidence other than speaking in tongues is demissive. The Bible in no way suggests replacing speaking in tongues with love or any other actiona and/or characteric
Robert Borders Many cults and false religious speak in tongues. Tongues does not necessarily prove anything.
Bibliata Net Speaking in tongues indicates baptism with the Holy Ghost  as initial evidence following salvation and sanctification of clean heart. Those cults and others speaking their tongues hardly qualify as saved and sanctified, so comparing to them is like apples to oranges
Robert Borders What about multitudes of tongue talking Pentecostals that bear no spiritual fruit?
Bibliata Net 1 Cor 14 is not about the initial evidence. There’s a difference between the the initial evidence and the gift of speaking in tongues
Robert Borders Circular reasoning?
Bibliata Net Nope. Biblical theology as applied by ap. Paul
Troy DayYou Posted many moons ago to discuss mainly folk who abandon holiness and baptism doctrine go reformed, calvinist or whatever new doctrine they were not brought up into. Same goes for abandoning ones religious roots for political reasons What is your opinion? Timothy Carter
Timothy Carter I believe that this would need to be considered case by case. Everyone’s spiritual journey is unique. Obviously, there are Biblical principles/truths that must not be put aside such as Christ and Him crucified- raised on the third day. But, there are other things that Christian’s will always struggle to accept from different beliefs within the Christian faith. We must remember that  everyone grows spiritually at different rates. When someone has abandoned the teaching of his/her childhood church, we can expect that he/she has done so with good reason. We may not ever know or understand the reasons but it is important to continue to love each other and support each other as we all seek the heart of Christ. Jesus said, “For he that is not against us is for us” (Mark 9:40 ERV). The Apostle Paul explanations that God is working inside each of us to help us become what He wants. Each person is responsible for his/her self.Philippians 2:12-13My dear friends, you always obeyed what you were taught. Just as you obeyed when I was with you, it is even more important for you to obey now that I am not there. So you must continue to live in a way that gives meaning to your salvation. Do this with fear and respect for God. 13 Yes, it is God who is working in you. He helps you want to do what pleases him, and he gives you the power to do it.It is very important for us to understand that as we make our plain for salvation that we do so with the Fear of the Lord. Our lives must be rooted in the Word. If not we will fool ourselves into a life of sin.When a person rejects the teaching of their childhood sometimes, it is to help them grow closer to God. Other times, it is because they have rejected Christ. If we see a fellow beliver who has abandoned the teaching of their childhood but are still seeking to follow Christ, we should rejoice.
Ira Huth Amen Brother Timothy Carter!!!
Troy DayYou Timothy Ira It would have been well to consider it case by case if it was not such a mass epidemics Ricky Grimsley do not believe in pre-Trib rapturePaul Hughes dont believe in entire sanctification Walter Polasik and man other dont believe in initial evidence so many others dont believe in eternal Sonshipthe rest remaining dont believe in the TrinityBrody Pope has reported many not believing in healing from GodI actually HAVE taken them case by case this past year and when does that it seems like dealing with a legion Have such abandoned their roots while rethinking their theology? Well, they came from us but we’re not of us
Timothy Carter There is most definitely a problem when someone rejects Christ as God’s eternal Son. This is a rejection of salvation. The other issues listed here are not a requirement for salvation. There is a serious problem when a person rejects the Trinity.  A person can have salvation in Christ and not understand the teaching of the Tribulation; Sanctification; not understanding Devine Healing; and the list continues. But, I don’t believe that a person can have Salvation in Christ when he/she rejects the Trinity or the Divinity of Christ.
Ira Huth I think Troy Day there might be and I said might be a hidden agenda and or reasoning why it is such a mass epidemic. So to speak, if you know what I mean.
Ira Huth Just a thought!
Troy DayYou Ira I wholeheartedly agree but how do we fix it?
Ricky Grimsley Lol pretrib a mass epidemic….it didnt even exist as an idea 150 years ago.
Troy DayYou Here’s your argument turned around Ricky Grimsley I dont study what existed 150 yrs ago I study the Bible which speaks of pre-Trib Rapture. The church fathers who also studied the Bible only since there was nothing else around believed it too BUT lets not make this conv. about the rapture too. There is much more at stake here
Ira Huth Back to the simple basics the Trinity in the Word. Plan and simple Troy Day.
Troy DayYou I believe in the divine Trinity. No Christianity without it. I also believe in the triuine nature of man, though the Bible is not explicit on it as much as some want it to be
Troy DayYou Wrong again Ricky Grimsley Virtually all Ancient Church Fathers Believed in Pre-Trib Rapture http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-ancient-church…/
Ricky Grimsley Have you read that article. Name one church Father that said jesus will return before Antichrist
Troy DayYou What does the  Antichrist has to do with it? Do you mean the best?
Ricky Grimsley Because 2Thessalonians kills pretrib by explaining the Antichrist comes  before christ comes back
Troy DayYou 2Thessalonians has the word antichrist in the text or you put it there?
Walter It doesn’t have the word “anti-Christ” but the individual it describes (as the Bible does in other language elsewhere) is definitely antichrist and early church fathers have recognized this as such. Only Reformed theologians take to allegorical views of what this might mean. But then, Reformed aren’t usually pre-Trib anyway and they perpetuate the lie that the Early Church didn’t teach the chiliasm. But this has been historically proven to be a false approach. It’s just that there is, even among the most conservative Reformed theologians, that Liberal, anti-literal interpretation streak.
Ricky Grimsley
Walter Show me otherwise Ricky.
Ricky Grimsley Show you what?
Ricky Grimsley Cmon troy why the foolish talk. Everyone knows its the Antichrist in Thessalonians 2. If you dont think so, you should probably quit talking about eschatology
Walter Troy is in a world of his own. I’ve already debated him on other issues.
Troy DayYou You mean the world of Pentecostal theology where people still believe in pre-Trib rapture, right? What world are you in?
Walter Troy Day: It’s possible I’d lost track of who was defending what in this thread. I certainly believe in a pre-Trib Rapture.
Troy DayYou Ricky Grimsley Ephraim the Syrian wrote: For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.
Danny Lirette False; he did not teach any such thing: you quoted the Latin translation of the forgery; Pseudo-Ephraem. Ephraem was dead for 400 years by the time this was written. The Syriac of Pseudo-Ephraem literally reads: “Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: ‘Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions!”The text itself was after 700 A.D
Troy DayYou Actually I’ve seen this argument before and its false. Even the style of writing dates at 4AD
Troy DayYou The text is based on two manuscripts: (1) Codex Vaticanus Sir. 566, and (2) Codex Dublinensis (Trinity College)  I have seen the one @ Trinity and can show you even my own pictures 🙂 It dont get more authentic than that I could not gain access to the vatican version
Ricky Grimsley Prewrath teaches that the rapture happens before the tribulation of matthew 24:21. What more do you want. I think if you understood the prewrath position you would believe it.
Troy DayYou Walter Polasik As long as we all make it to heaven one day
Walter Troy Day: Well, just think of this: in heaven we won’t need Facebook to fellowship and discuss theology and then I can be a patient teacher and harangue you all eternity long until you get it!😂
Troy DayYou given you make to heaven – some today believe the church will not go to heaven but just stay here Yet there we shall know all as it is

 

 

31 Comments

  • Reply October 23, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Something for Christians to consider and think about in this election season …

  • Reply October 23, 2016

    Robert Borders

    Theology can be evolving without having strong roots. The Holy Spirit can lead us into truth.

  • Reply October 23, 2016

    Varnel Watson

    Unfortunately the trend today is abandoning faith roots without much Theology evolving – and more often even without any Theology at all

  • Reply November 29, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Posted many moons ago to discuss mainly folk who abandon holiness and baptism doctrine go reformed, calvinist or whatever new doctrine they were not brought up into. Same goes for abandoning ones religious roots for political reasons What is your opinion? Timothy Carter

  • Reply December 1, 2017

    Timothy Carter

    I believe that this would need to be considered case by case. Everyone’s spiritual journey is unique. Obviously, there are Biblical principles/truths that must not be put aside such as Christ and Him crucified- raised on the third day. But, there are other things that Christian’s will always struggle to accept from different beliefs within the Christian faith.

    We must remember that everyone grows spiritually at different rates.

    When someone has abandoned the teaching of his/her childhood church, we can expect that he/she has done so with good reason. We may not ever know or understand the reasons but it is important to continue to love each other and support each other as we all seek the heart of Christ. Jesus said, “For he that is not against us is for us” (Mark 9:40 ERV).

    The Apostle Paul explanations that God is working inside each of us to help us become what He wants. Each person is responsible for his/her self.

    Philippians 2:12-13

    My dear friends, you always obeyed what you were taught. Just as you obeyed when I was with you, it is even more important for you to obey now that I am not there. So you must continue to live in a way that gives meaning to your salvation. Do this with fear and respect for God. 13 Yes, it is God who is working in you. He helps you want to do what pleases him, and he gives you the power to do it.

    It is very important for us to understand that as we make our plain for salvation that we do so with the Fear of the Lord. Our lives must be rooted in the Word. If not we will fool ourselves into a life of sin.

    When a person rejects the teaching of their childhood sometimes, it is to help them grow closer to God. Other times, it is because they have rejected Christ.

    If we see a fellow beliver who has abandoned the teaching of their childhood but are still seeking to follow Christ, we should rejoice.

  • Reply December 1, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Timothy Ira It would have been well to consider it case by case if it was not such a mass epidemics
    Ricky Grimsley do not believe in pre-Trib rapture
    Paul Hughes dont believe in entire sanctification
    Walter Polasik and man other dont believe in initial evidence
    so many others dont believe in eternal Sonship
    the rest remaining dont believe in the Trinity
    Brody Pope has reported many not believing in healing from God

    I actually HAVE taken them case by case this past year and when does that it seems like dealing with a legion Have such abandoned their roots while rethinking their theology? Well, they came from us but we’re not of us

  • Reply December 1, 2017

    Ira Huth

    I think Troy Day there might be and I said might be a hidden agenda and or reasoning why it is such a mass epidemic.
    So to speak, if you know what I mean.

  • Reply December 1, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Ira I wholeheartedly agree but how do we fix it?

  • Reply December 1, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

    Lol pretrib a mass epidemic….it didnt even exist as an idea 150 years ago.

  • Reply December 1, 2017

    Ira Huth

    Back to the simple basics the Trinity in the Word. Plan and simple Troy Day.

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Wrong again Ricky Grimsley Virtually all Ancient Church Fathers Believed in Pre-Trib Rapture http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-ancient-church-fathers-believed-in-pre-trib-rapture/

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

    Have you read that article. Name one church Father that said jesus will return before Antichrist

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    What does the Antichrist has to do with it? Do you mean the best?

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

    Because 2Thessalonians kills pretrib by explaining the Antichrist comes before christ comes back

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    2Thessalonians has the word antichrist in the text or you put it there?

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Walter Polasik

    It doesn’t have the word “anti-Christ” but the individual it describes (as the Bible does in other language elsewhere) is definitely antichrist and early church fathers have recognized this as such. Only Reformed theologians take to allegorical views of what this might mean. But then, Reformed aren’t usually pre-Trib anyway and they perpetuate the lie that the Early Church didn’t teach the chiliasm. But this has been historically proven to be a false approach. It’s just that there is, even among the most conservative Reformed theologians, that Liberal, anti-literal interpretation streak.

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Walter Polasik

    Show me otherwise Ricky.

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

    Cmon troy why the foolish talk. Everyone knows its the Antichrist in Thessalonians 2. If you dont think so, you should probably quit talking about eschatology

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Walter Polasik

    Troy is in a world of his own. I’ve already debated him on other issues.

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Ricky Grimsley Ephraim the Syrian wrote:
    For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.

  • Reply December 2, 2017

    Ricky Grimsley

    Prewrath teaches that the rapture happens before the tribulation of matthew 24:21. What more do you want. I think if you understood the prewrath position you would believe it.

  • Reply December 3, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    Walter Polasik As long as we all make it to heaven one day

  • Reply December 3, 2017

    Walter Polasik

    Troy Day: Well, just think of this: in heaven we won’t need Facebook to fellowship and discuss theology and then I can be a patient teacher and harangue you all eternity long until you get it!?

  • Reply December 4, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    given you make to heaven – some today believe the church will not go to heaven but just stay here Yet there we shall know all as it is

  • Reply May 27, 2018

    Joe Absher

    Is it a new format? It doesn’t appear to be compatible with a phone. The print portion is half on the right. Can’t get a screenshot

  • Reply May 27, 2018

    Louise Cummings

    My phone is what I use. I also don’t have the Theology book all of you study from. I love the study of theology. It’s a great study. But I don’t have the book.

  • Reply May 27, 2018

    Louise Cummings

    I have an I pad. But I don’t use it much. But I could use it. I’ve down loaded the Book of Enoch on mine. I have a lot of it read. I also pulled up some o the verses in the book of Asher on it. I love it for things like that. But my face book is easier for me.

  • Reply May 27, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    Joe Absher It’s a great discussion format. Hope you can read it on your phone

  • Reply May 27, 2018

    Joe Absher

    Same thing. Format doesn’t allow any adjustments or movement

  • Reply May 27, 2018

    Varnel Watson

    This is one of the olders posts in this group still going as OP discussion Few people that have now created independent Pentecostal groups said they do not believe in speaking in tongues and never have but claimed to be Pentecostal One even claimed he can turn tongues on and off while drinking strong wine Ricky Grimsley

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