3 distinct theological-systems. Which one do you subscribe to?
Henry Volk [06/24/2015 7:15 PM]
Pentecostal Theology [06/24/2015 7:15 PM]
You mean there are lutherans out there that are not covenant reformed like Charles Page ?
Henry Volk [06/24/2015 7:16 PM]
Nope the majority of us aren’t lol
Pentecostal Theology [06/24/2015 7:16 PM]
aren’t … ?
Henry Volk [06/24/2015 7:18 PM]
…are not adherents of Reformed Covenant Theology.
Pentecostal Theology [06/24/2015 7:18 PM]
oh sorry – you are MO Synod!
Henry Volk [06/24/2015 7:19 PM]
Yep lol. What kind of Lutherans have you been running into lol?
Pentecostal Theology [06/24/2015 7:19 PM]
Doesnt Federal Vision theology go with works based salvation. Luther to my knowledge did not advocate works based salvation. Unless you are referring to #Lutheranism as opposed to Luther the man himself?
Henry Volk [06/24/2015 7:21 PM]
From what I understand about Federal Vision, yes. I find it hard to believe you’ve ran into Lutherans who are Federal Vision, unless I’m misunderstanding you.
Pentecostal Theology [06/24/2015 7:22 PM]
The Lutheran argument for universal atonement is the logical conclusion to the other four points of Calvinism. One particular rational argument has been highly influential since John Owen’s “The Death of Death” was published in the 17th century. However, Lutherans at the Concordia Seminary in Saint Louis have books in their library denying the perseverance of the saints. The Lutheran pastor I asked about this told me, “In John 10 we have a promise that nobody can grab Christ’s sheep out of the Good Shepherd’s hand…but they can jump out themselves if they want to…” but then again Charles Page is the only Lutheran I know and I aint even too much sure in it 🙂
Barry G. Carpenter [06/24/2015 7:28 PM]
I am not sure that the chart is helpful as all the positions would say they are Christocentric but the bottom chart is not dealing with the same issues as the Cov. & Dispen. theologies are: namely how salvation relates to the covenants made with Moses & Abraham and how the physical seed of Abraham relates to those elect in Christ (see Rom. 9 & esp. Gal. 4).
Henry Volk [06/24/2015 7:28 PM]
I don’t know if UA is the logical conclusion to TUL-P. Lutherans believe that no man has the free will, in his natural fallen state, to cooperate with grace and thus be saved. The will must first be converted by God’s grace and this grace is resistible. Our Confessions explain it better than I can. http://bookofconcord.org/augsburgconfession.php#article18
Pentecostal Theology [06/24/2015 7:29 PM]
Charles Page [06/24/2015 7:31 PM]
while in Turkey I had a good chaplain friend who was Missouri Synod! good man.
Henry Volk [06/24/2015 7:32 PM]
I would like to think that most of us are decent people lol.
Charles Page [06/24/2015 7:35 PM]
oh, you know whut I mean!!!
Charles Page [06/24/2015 7:36 PM]
No, he was a good family man.
Pentecostal Theology [06/24/2015 7:43 PM]
Rick Wadholm Jr not too sure if Luther was Christological OR Christocentric
Henry Volk [06/24/2015 7:45 PM]
Why not both (;
Pentecostal Theology [06/24/2015 7:51 PM]
b/c the center sometimes defines/defies the logic, and Luther started in the periphery of Roman Catholic theology http://thesagelyblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/christocentrism-vs-christology.html
Henry Volk [06/24/2015 8:03 PM]
Ok I see what you’re saying.
John Kissinger [06/24/2015 8:08 PM]
This is good. Thank you! We need more discussions like this
Charles Page [06/24/2015 9:40 PM]
don’t like box theology however if I must be – I am covenant
Barry G. Carpenter [06/25/2015 2:16 AM]
May I please also say that the chart is not representing Cov. Theology which sees the covenant of redemption under the dispensations not of Moses, Abraham, etc. (these are progressive revelations) but under works (pre-fall) and grace and with the natural seed of Abraham and the Spiritual seed of Abraham.
John Kissinger [06/25/2015 5:55 AM]
Doesnt covenant theology reject dispensations?
George A Parker [06/27/2015 11:27 AM]