Practical application of Pentecostal theology in politics, economy and social issues
Enjoying William K. Kay on Apostolic Finances at EPTA 2025
Isaiah 65:1a
נִדְרַ֙שְׁתִּי֙ לְל֣וֹא שָׁאָ֔לוּ
I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me;נִמְצֵ֖אתִי לְלֹ֣א בִקְשֻׁ֑נִי
I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me. (ESV)
The ESV (also NRSV, NET, NASB; contrast NIV, HCSB) take these two verbs – “ready to be sought … ready to be found” – as tolerative nifals, I gather.
Joüon-Muraoka (a Hebrew grammar) says of the tolerative nifal נדרש:
generally with a notion of effective action….to allow oneself to be asked, and that effectively, hence practically = to answer (speaking of God)
Walkte & O’Connor (another Hebrew grammar) follow this idea, offering the translation:
I answered (< allowed myself to be sought by) those who did not ask (for me);
I revealed myself to (< allowed myself to be found by) those who did not seek me.
This “efficacy” nuance is different from the “ready to…” translation of the ESV etc.
How should we decide in what way to understand the nifal here? Is this verse intended to convey something already accomplished (revealed, answered) or merely offerred?
1. The other uses of the potentially “tolerative” nifal דרש (with subject = Yahweh) are in Ezekiel; mostly these could also be taken either way.
2. The LXX seems to carry a similar sense of “effective”: Εμφανὴς ἐγενόμην τοῖς ἐμὲ μὴ ζητοῦσιν, εὑρέθην τοῖς ἐμὲ μὴ ἐπερωτῶσιν· = I became visible to those who did not seek me; I was found by those who did not inquire after me. This may have more to do with reading them as passives (“was found” + reconciliation of “did not ask” with “was sought” –> “became visible”) rather than a reflection of the translator having read Jouon, but you never know.
Troy Day
I know Philip Williams would not know Jack about this one Terry Wiles BUT William K Kay just explained how apostolic finances were handled after German AG-HQ went bankrupt over missionary motel
@highlight for Peter Vandever are the facts of this talk clarifying the OFF shore way AG took to hire apostolic leadership to handle global AG banking on properties and this is what Robert L. Carpenter II has witnessed lately in FloridaKey properties from another denomination #EPTA2025 #EPTA
Terry Wiles
Troy Day Awe, the Germans. They sail a really different ship. Zipped lips on this one.
Troy Day
its sad Terry Wiles
HOW could Peter Vandever Philip Williams understand this @highlight
some AG missionary in germany figured he would buy a hotel to use for a church on sunday and motel during the week
this would be AG germany cash cow
it went bankrupt before they could say GO
global AG HQ had to pick the bill
since they did NOT have the cash
OR had spent them on their fat check salaries
They figured to SELL the HQ building in Germany
to cover the loss 🙂
ONLY AFTER it was all said and done supreme leaders told the pplZ AG in EU needs apostolic leadership done by real apostles who can deal with financial losses 🙂 Sounds SO COG familiar? John Mushenhouse ??
Philip Williams
Troy Day Apostles are money managers??
Troy Day
anything here? John Mushenhouse Terry Wiles Philip Williams starting to become afraid Peter Vandever has left our AG – Pentecost ? Bishop Bernie L Wade may know something something abouy AG apostoliX
Philip Williams
Apostolic finances = Sell all you have and give to the poor so that you can follow Christ and not the money.
Troy Day
as you see Terry Wiles almost no one cares about this AG matters any longer NOT sure why theologians and William K Kay still mention it Same goes to financial accountability in cog John Mushenhouse …
Terry Wiles
yep. it seems like nobody cares.