Practical application of Pentecostal theology in politics, economy and social issues
KISS the SON…
Psalm 2:12 Kiss his son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
Job
18 “Why did you bring me out from the womb?
Would that I had died before any eye had seen me
19 and were as though I had not been,
carried from the womb to the grave.
20 Are not my days few?
Then cease, and leave me alone, that I may find a little cheer
21 before I go—and I shall not return—
to the land of darkness and deep shadow,
22 the land of gloom like thick darkness,
like deep shadow without any order,
where light is as thick darkness.”
[Job 10:21-22 ESV]
10 But a man dies and is laid low;
man breathes his last, and where is he?
11 As waters fail from a lake
and a river wastes away and dries up,
12 so a man lies down and rises not again;
till the heavens are no more he will not awake
or be roused out of his sleep.
[Job 14:10-12 ESV]
13 If I hope for Sheol as my house,
if I make my bed in darkness,
14 if I say to the pit, ‘You are my father,’
and to the worm, ‘My mother,’ or ‘My sister,’
15 where then is my hope?
Who will see my hope?
16 Will it go down to the bars of Sheol?
Shall we descend together into the dust?”
[Job 17:13-16 ESV]
Jesus
19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
[Luke 16:19-31 ESV]
Job described Sheol as a place of darkness and deep shadow, where man is in a state of sleep, hopeless, with worms, in the dust.
In contrast, Jesus described Sheol as a place where there is both torment for the wicked and comfort for the righteous, with at least two compartments with a great chasm in between, where the dead are very awake and conscious, not asleep.
Question
Is there a contradiction between Job’s and Jesus’ understanding of Sheol? Did Job and Jesus have different views on death and the afterlife?
Related BHSE questions
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Varnel Watson
Ricky Grimsley Now how are the kings and you rulers of the earth at the time of David (around 1000 BCE) commanded to kiss the Son, if He will not be the Son until the incarnation and Mary’s conceiving of the Holy Ghost? #noughsaid
Street Preacherz
Psalm Two is another fine example of the promise and faithfulness of the great God. Jehovah God. He watches over his word to perform it.
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
– John 1:14
Varnel Watson
If the kings and rulers at the time of David were commanded to kiss the Son of God this can only mean He was already the Son at the time in the OT
Wayne Dodd
Psalms is not only a book of songs, it’s a book of prophesy. Consider psalm 22. Whether or not you believe in the preexistence of the Son, this is prophetic. No one could “kiss the Son” until the Son arrived. 🙂
Varnel Watson
mhm – can anyone kiss the Son right now? Still not convinced!
Wayne Dodd
Certainly – Galatians 4:6 says we have the spirit of the Son.
The Son abides in the house forever to make intercession (Hebrews 7:3).
Varnel Watson
Well Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever SO is His sonship – the same does not change like some propose Psalm 2 however is the only scripture quoted with the theory that Jesus Christ is eternal son. It is important for us to understand that Psalm 2 says exactly the opposite IF the kings are ordered to kiss the Son some 1000 yrs before He was incarnate. That alone makes Jesus Christ the ETERNAL Son of God
Wayne Dodd
My contention would be that this is a prophetic reading much like psalm 22 and does not in itself establish preexistence. No matter which side of the fence we are on.
Varnel Watson
No problem with that. But if it does not prophetically establish preexistence then we cannot be double minded in interpretation and claim that it establishes post existence. BTW prophecy in the Bible does not only predict the future i.e. it is not always in the future. Many rabbis believe Moses had a prophetic visions of the past in order to describe creation and all that happened in Genesis Seems Stephen in Acts 7 and then Paul had similar prophetic words revealing the past not only the future
Wayne Dodd
No- it doesn’t establish post either. There are many other scriptures that establish that.
Varnel Watson
I am looking at the Hebrew and the LXX and then the NT quotes of this text. In all cases tense is present (indicative) continuous. This means the action of being the Son is already present when the word is spoken. YOU ARE does not refer to a indefinite future. Same goes for the imperative KISS. So the future prophecy interpretation is far fetched IF even possible. Actually, if treated as present historic tense which most of the pericopes are written in it is a definite past event continuing in the present. Add to that the specific eternal inclination of the YHWH “I am” and a prophetic future interpretation is simply impossible. Does YHWH mean He will be when He said “I am”? Then why would it mean future when YHWH says about the Son You ARE – not you will be maybe or going to be in some “prophetic” distant future?
Joe Absher
“Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
Psalm 2:12 (KJV) just for reference
Maurício Bezerra Santos Silva
There is a good discussion about the Hebrew text of this verse in INTRODUCTION TO BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION by Craig Blomberg et al.
Varnel Watson
tell us all about it Maurício Bezerra Santos Silva
Varnel Watson
Rico Hero If the kings and rulers at the time of David were commanded to kiss the Son of God this can only mean He was already the Son at the time in the OT, meaning He was the Son
Rico Hero
Ps 2 is unfulfilled prophecy. The kings and rulers at the time of David could not kiss the Son of God
Varnel Watson
present imperative – says nothing about future events Refers to current ongoing occurrences already began prior to the moment of speaking The future prophecy theory is far fetched
John-Mark Neal Hales
Double meaning here as with much of Scripture. Refers to David expecting vassal Kings to kiss his son Solomon and for the world to kiss the Son of God.