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Wesley and grace:
He tells us how grace functioned at different times. He gives us different titles, which is all the same grace, but fit for different situations. Grace evokes different reactions.
- Book by Randy Maddox: Responsible Grace: John Wesley’s Practical Theology.
For Wesley all of God’s part is grace, and we respond to it on the way. That was contrary to reformed theology, who did not see that much the human response.
Prevenient grace (Oden 243) is the grace that begins to enable one and choose further to cooperate with saving grace. The person becomes and active participation in the grace of God. This is the grace that operates before conversion. Grace always works ahead of us, and works with us as we respond. Prevenient means in the 18th to prepare, to go before. This grace is God’s initiation, and moves us along to saving grace (Oden.244). No one sins, without the grace he had before. This prevenient grace creates a sensitivity for God’s will (look up in p.244). This grace is not sufficient for salvation itself, but it works through the law how we have fallen short. It is grace for all in all. prevenient grace is a gift from God and not deserved by anyone.
If prevenient grace has any power to save it is by the Holy Spirit, who works in us and removes all imagination of merit.
Salvation (p.245) is our free response to grace. God works, therefor we must response and work. Faith and its reception involves prayer, active good works (not for salvation, but as a response to the love of God). (246) Each subsequent …..
Wesley’s understanding of depravity is that God is always working in order to bring people to salvation. Rom.5.20. Even within the fallen condition grace is working ceaselessly to free us from guilt and sin. (247) The chief function of human grace is to bring the person to repentance.
Wesley assumes response to grace, and Calving doesn’t
Convicting grace: Prevenient grace brings one to the sinfulness to oneself, brings to despair offer ones one righteousness.
Saving grace: Has a divine and a human side. From the divine side, it is by grace alone. On the human side, it is by faith. Faith is the human response to divine grace, and leads to repentance and believe. (look p.278) This chart helps of where one is in the evangelism process.
Repentance: the knowledge of ourselves changes, and we move to conviction where we become aware of penalty, (it can be helpful to pray for people in sin, to become miserable, in order that they may come to Christ)
Justifying grace (247). By justifying we are saved from the guilt of sin and restored to the favor of God, sanctifying grace we are saved form the power of sin and restore to the image of God
Sanctifying grace (247). Our salvation is brought to full moral fruitfulness, and digs in actively and cuts the roots of sin, instantly or in a process. The believer lives out actively the sanctification. God does not only deliver us from the penalty of sin, but heals us from the plague of sin. Freedom is a capacity of the human soul, even in our human fallen-ness, but is functionally impaired and spiritually nearly destroyed, but the sanctifying grace make us free from the root of sin.
We understand salvation is a process and expressed in crises experiences, in salvation, sanctification and Holy Spirit baptism.
Gause:
Grenz: saved means that one has been saved, is being saved, and will be saved. That is important. Saves is used in various context, e.g. in the house of Cornelius. Peter does not go for the initial salvation of Cornelius, as Evangelicals point out. There is so much characteristics of salvation in Cornelius, and he was already saved. Peter indicates, “you know that of Jesus Christ”, Peter does not go to show initial aspects, but to show further aspects of salvation, which was the fulfillment of John’s promise – the Holy Spirit baptism.
Salvation is never a punctual event, but part of the process in life. In the same way a birth is not only one punctual event, but part of a greater event, starting from conception, through a crown man. The “covenant” of life is the overall covenant of God with Adam and Eve. Their obedience was always their response to the love and live of God.
The covenant of life was re-introduced on the bases of grace. The human sin is overcome by the power of grace. Life in Christ is a life in faith and obedience.
We are not saved, from the experience in the past, but on the bases of the grace which works presently.
God is from initial faith to their fulfillment in Christ. Faith is not a punctivity, as repentance is not punctitive. If we are not in a state of repentance we move to a state of hardness. Faith is always in the process of perpetuity. We shall not do witness, but we shall be by nature witness. By nature we are a witness, and confession is conceptually made and renewed, and made continually fresh.
Obedience can become a cultural thing, and this is very dangerous, because doing the right thing is an act as obedience to God. We are always in the immediate present of God. This is not a threat, but it is a loving presence, and I know that God is seeing and hearing me in every moment of my being. God knows my sin, too, and I am glad. We are not confessing to an enemy, but we are confessing to a father. It is a rejection o our side, when we hide our sins from God.
We have treaded law as if it is a synonym of legalism, law is a framework in which we structure our obedience to God. That’s David can say “I love your law”.
Obedience is always living out, that which is formed within. That calls for the removal of the law of sin and death. “being free from the law of sin”, from here we go on to perfection by transformation and being cleansed within.
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher Nelson Banuchi Jacobus Arminius (October 10, 1560 – October 19, 1609), the Latinized name of Jakob Hermanszoon, was a Dutch theologian from the Protestant Reformation period whose views became the basis of Arminianism and the Dutch Remonstrant movement.
Jeremiah Burton RichardAnna Boyce we are proceeding with our teaching on sanctification vs free grace which is NO grace at all in a PENTECOSTAL theology proper
Repentance – Turning from sin.
precedes
Regeneration – The change in the person produced by God.
and
Justification – The imputation of righteousness to the individual bus making
that means sanctification as well HENCE it is not part of a 2nd work of grace You statement resembles Calvin and is NOT Pentecostal at all Pls review the topic again
Joe Absher
Some help thank you . which parts were wesley .
Varnel Watson
its ALL Wesley on grace:
He tells us how grace functioned at different times. He gives us different titles, which is all the same grace, but fit for different situations. Grace evokes different reactions.
Book by Randy Maddox: Responsible Grace: John Wesley’s Practical Theology.
For Wesley all of God’s part is grace, and we respond to it on the way. That was contrary to reformed theology, who did not see that much the human response.
Prevenient grace (Oden 243) is the grace that begins to enable one and choose further to cooperate with saving grace. The person becomes and active participation in the grace of God. This is the grace that operates before conversion. Grace always works ahead of us, and works with us as we respond. Prevenient means in the 18th to prepare, to go before. This grace is God’s initiation, and moves us along to saving grace (Oden.244). No one sins, without the grace he had before. This prevenient grace creates a sensitivity for God’s will (look up in p.244). This grace is not sufficient for salvation itself, but it works through the law how we have fallen short. It is grace for all in all. prevenient grace is a gift from God and not deserved by anyone.
If prevenient grace has any power to save it is by the Holy Spirit, who works in us and removes all imagination of merit.
Salvation (p.245) is our free response to grace. God works, therefor we must response and work. Faith and its reception involves prayer, active good works (not for salvation, but as a response to the love of God). (246) Each subsequent …..
Wesley’s understanding of depravity is that God is always working in order to bring people to salvation. Rom.5.20. Even within the fallen condition grace is working ceaselessly to free us from guilt and sin. (247) The chief function of human grace is to bring the person to repentance.
Wesley assumes response to grace, and Calving doesn’t
Convicting grace: Prevenient grace brings one to the sinfulness to oneself, brings to despair offer ones one righteousness.
Saving grace: Has a divine and a human side. From the divine side, it is by grace alone. On the human side, it is by faith. Faith is the human response to divine grace, and leads to repentance and believe. (look p.278) This chart helps of where one is in the evangelism process.
Repentance: the knowledge of ourselves changes, and we move to conviction where we become aware of penalty, (it can be helpful to pray for people in sin, to become miserable, in order that they may come to Christ)
Justifying grace (247). By justifying we are saved from the guilt of sin and restored to the favor of God, sanctifying grace we are saved form the power of sin and restore to the image of God
Sanctifying grace (247). Our salvation is brought to full moral fruitfulness, and digs in actively and cuts the roots of sin, instantly or in a process. The believer lives out actively the sanctification. God does not only deliver us from the penalty of sin, but heals us from the plague of sin. Freedom is a capacity of the human soul, even in our human fallen-ness, but is functionally impaired and spiritually nearly destroyed, but the sanctifying grace make us free from the root of sin.
We understand salvation is a process and expressed in crises experiences, in salvation, sanctification and Holy Spirit baptism.
then some Dr. Gause + Dr. Grenz interpretation(s )
Mike Partyka
Having trouble coming up with distinct difference between regeneration and Wesley’s “prevenient grace”
Varnel Watson
Mike Partyka how so ? they are quite distinct
Mike Partyka
Troy Day i understand that it has the right for man to reject it. Just seems like a way of explaining a “soft regeneration”. Philippians 1:6?
Joe Absher
Thank you
Varnel Watson
whats this new thing of FREE grace and a licence to sin? Ricky Grimsley Jim Price RichardAnna Boyce Wesley NEVER believed that
Les Snowden
grace was made available to everyone by Jesus but we have to be born again and repent to recive it
Jerry Nelson
Grace is not a license to sin but quite the opposite. Graces teaches us to live holy and godly.
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Grace gives us the power to live above sin because It is God working in us to form his nature within us. That’s the purpose of the New and Better Covenant we have in Christ Jesus!
Blessings ????
RichardAnna Boyce
Wesley did not teach Free Grace. Wesley taught crises such as entire sanctification. Free Grace teaches in the Bible that sanctification is an ongoing process (Gal. 3:3; Eph. 4:15-16; 1 Thes. 4:1,10; 2 Peter 1:3-8).
During this process, the new man is transformed into Christ’s image (2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:23; Col. 3:10)
and increased victory is won over sin (Eph. 4:22-24; Gal. 5:16-6:5; 1 Thes. 4:3-7).
– Crises that promote growth can and do occur in the life of a Christian (2 Cor. 1:8-11; 2 Cor. 12:1-10).
The New Testament teaches NOWHERE, however, that crises such as surrender (Keswick), entire sanctification (WESLEY), or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit are normative experiences that should be sought by all Christians. Christians are never urged to seek life-defining post-conversion crisis experiences.
Instead we hear more about not losing heart, not growing weary (Gal. 6:9-10)
and pressing on with the acknowledgment we have not become perfect (Phil. 3:12-16; Gal. 5:16-6:10).
Varnel Watson
Wesley did not teach Free Grace. IS true neither Wesley nor Pentecostals teach it Its purely baptist theology
Varnel Watson
forget it RichardAnna Boyce WESLEY did NOT believe in free grace He believed in entire sanctification though Joe Absher