Apologetic site called “Therefore God Exists.”

Posted by Howard Gardner in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Some months back I was on an Apologetic site called “Therefore God Exists.” The moderator and others on the site seemed quite knowledgeable and friendly until I brought up a sensitive issue. You see there is a Calvinist Pastor in our area who teaches that once you are saved, you can even commit suicide and still be assured of going to Heaven. In fact one of his colleagues apparently made the statement that “once you are saved, you could even die in bed with another man’s wife and still be assured of going to Heaven as you cannot lose your salvation.” Well one of this pastor’s flock took him so seriously that, when the going got rough, he did in fact kill himself. And at the funeral the pastor assured the family that he was in heaven as again you cannot lose your salvation. I am not looking to debate the question of whether or not suicide always results in one going to hell. However it seems to me that the dangers of this sort of preaching need to be addressed in a manner in which the Church becomes a source of strength to those who are struggling. This man seems to instead be in the position of encouraging them to jump off the cliff.

David Dale Alderman [02/03/2015 10:33 AM]
The same Lord who said every sin and blasphemy committed among men shall be forgiven them also said if a man loves me he will keep my word. Suicide is not an unforgivable sin, neither is sexual immorality; but for each individual Christian the real issue is this: if you excuse sin in your life how can you possibly know that you’re going to heaven? We encourage Christians to continue struggling with sin until they break through to victory; We do that with sympathy knowing how weak we ourselves are- but sin must always be seen as sin.

John Duncan [02/03/2015 11:07 AM]
No wilful known sin is forgiven without repentance and there is not a more Scriptural, basic doctrine than that. OSAS blinds people to the most important doctrines of the Bible. Once someone gets so commited to OSAS they will twist ALL contradicting Scriptures to fit their presupposition. You cannot change someones mind on that issue, while they are so committed. There is no prophet in debating or argueing with those committed to this false doctrine – except for the glory of God. Gal. 5:4 “you have fallen away from grace.” Paul did not believe it so neither should we. It is profitable to bring people to the understanding that a truly saved person would not kill themselves. So those that murder themselves were never saved in the first place according to the BIble. Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Howard Gardner [02/03/2015 11:38 AM]
I would like to think that what is being said from our pulpits gives people an inward strength to go out and face life’s problems head on in the power of the Holy Spirit. This man instead seems to be giving his people the incentive to either just quit or to live like the devil. Either way they supposedly get a free pass to Heaven.

John Duncan [02/03/2015 12:09 PM]
This is the lie as old as the garden, “You shall surely not die.” That takes away people inhibitions to sin against God. “Go ahead kill yourself, commit murder, rape, molestation, porn…you will not spiritually die” says the sly deceiver. But the Bible says, “the soul that sins it shall SURELY die.” A true Calvinist believes in the doctrine of “perseverance of the saints.” They believe that a truly saved individual will demonstrate their true repentance and salvation by persevering in a holy life until they go to heaven. So a true Calvinist would believe if a person murdered themselves they would demonstrate they were never truly converted or what we would call a false convert. But modern OSAS in it’s worst form would say holiness is not the evidence of true salvation and one could die with a sinful lifestyle and go to heaven. Only the most extreme OSAS advocates believes this and are opposed by all true Bible believers.

Howard Gardner [02/03/2015 12:53 PM]
Right John. That’s what i was trying to say above. There are only a few of what I guess would be classified as “hyper-Calvinists” who would fall into this category. I suspect that John MacArthur may be in this class but again those on the other site got real agitated that I even brought his name up. I do know that he also had a member of his congregation commit suicide and that similar charges were made that it resulted from what he had said from the pulpit.

Isaiah White Theologian [02/03/2015 2:00 PM]
So unfortunate…i don’t believe in once saved always saved… I believe in the completeness of man’s salvation…

Paul Hughes [02/03/2015 5:32 PM]
They say “Liberals are Liberals first,” and likewise it is a truism that many Calvinists are Calvinists first, mindlessly superimposing the Calvinist “analogy/rule of faith” and theologically-loaded Calvinist terminology on every Scripture, becoming immune to reason and the plain meaning of Scripture.

Evangilist Jimmy Callaway [02/18/2015 1:14 PM]
i don’t believe in once saved always saved.. if it was true God would have told us so. but He didn’t?

1 Comment

  • Varnel Watson
    Reply July 26, 2017

    Varnel Watson

    No willful known sin is forgiven without repentance and there is not a more Scriptural, basic doctrine than that. OSAS blinds people to the most important doctrines of the Bible. Once someone gets so committed to OSAS they will twist ALL contradicting Scriptures to fit their presupposition. You cannot change someones mind on that issue, while they are so committed. There is no prophet in debating or arguing with those committed to this false doctrine – except for the glory of God. Gal. 5:4 “you have fallen away from grace.”

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