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So if we say that a church person can never be demon possessed, isn’t this some sort of Charismatic Eternal Security (CES/OSAS), to say that once you are saved you can never backslide and be demon possessed? Rick Wadholm Jr Roger Wilkinson
Ed Brewer [06/16/2015 7:36 PM]
Semantic exercise – can’t be a Christian and a backslider at the same time
Richard Briedwell [06/16/2015 7:37 PM]
NO! but they can be oppressed
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 7:42 PM]
and attacked (not just as individuals but whole churches and/or denominations) http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/7-demons-targeting-the-church/
Ed Brewer [06/16/2015 7:51 PM]
The modern church is not so much bedeviled as disheveled – trying to fight the booger under every bush leaves little time to address the fiend that is our flesh
Ed Brewer [06/16/2015 8:08 PM]
…and please note that the use of the churches of Asia as a template to identify purported ‘demons’ totally misses the fundamental thrust of Rev. 2 & 3…. Christ didn’t say he had ought against the spectres that stimulated their various transgressions – He said ‘I have somewhat against THEE’ – mishandling of this issue is the Trojan horse in the Pentecostal movement because it deflects from the real issue at hand… He didn’t die so that we could go about vanquishing phantoms of our own paranoid (and most often unbiblical) construct… He died that we might overcome SIN. — that’s where the authentic spiritual warfare is joined
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 8:10 PM]
and especially ministers http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/david-wilkersons-vision-of-satans-slander-war/
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 8:12 PM]
I have ought against THEE that You tolerate Jezebel – sounds like transgression eh? Also, THEE refers to the angel of the church rather than the church (if it matters)
Ed Brewer [06/16/2015 8:50 PM]
The Greek word for ‘angels’ is simply ‘messengers’ (note it’s use for John the Baptist in Mt 11:10) – these are messages to those designated to carry the Word of the Lord in each context (probably Pastors today), and not distinctly communication in the spiritual ether.
Ed Brewer [06/16/2015 8:52 PM]
And yes, these messengers, then as now, bear a stricter judgment and heavy spiritual responsibility to preach the truth (the Word) and not run after every wind of doctrine
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 8:57 PM]
so basically your answer is No 🙂
Ed Brewer [06/16/2015 9:09 PM]
Yes and no – the true church cannot be demon possessed, however individual members have the option to choose to turn away, backslide and leave themselves open to demon possession in their apostasy
Pentecostal Theology [06/16/2015 9:10 PM]
Agreed. To add to the discussion Steve Webb just finished an appropriate Bible study from 1 John 4:1 on testing the spirits; touching on many aspects of pneumatology preparations for a study of “Encountering the Holy Spirit” by French Arrington
Ed Brewer [06/16/2015 9:13 PM]
This the difficulty when one attempts to merge Calvinist soteriology with classical Pentecostal pneumatology- there are elements that are fundamentally incompatible
Varnel Watson
NOW will it be correct to say that OSAS = ISIS ? Ricky Grimsley
Levi Allen Goff
Please explain to me what OSAS is?
David Rollings
i an not familiar with the abbreviation for anything political or Islamic
Varnel Watson
Levi Allen Goff Seriously 🙂 Once saved always saved = OSAS = ISIS. Fairly sure no one can truly explain OSAS David Rollings John Conger
Levi Allen Goff
And ISIS?
Varnel Watson
ISIS is SISI David Rollings | John Conger
David Rollings
The terms I know for Isis are ISIL and Daesch
John Conger
I’m not sure what you’re saying.
Varnel Watson
Well both ISIS and OSAS think they are pre-elect and everyone else is going to hell. Enough-said
Levi Allen Goff
I stay out of politics… Religion doctrine is enough to deal with. Lol. So what is the point here?
John Conger
Lol oh I see. I’m not sure those who subscribe to osas believe in preelection but I agree both are wrong
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce Isara Mo So if we say that a church person can never be demon possessed, isn’t this some sort of Charismatic Eternal Security (CES/OSAS), to say that once you are saved you can never backslide and be demon possessed?
RichardAnna Boyce
of course OSAS can backslide or become apostate but never lose Eternal Life Who is Jesus; and of course Holy Spirit never leaves OSAS so cant be demon possessed.
Louise Cummings
I would think so. Because demons can’t be in Christians. If it’s someone that use to be a Christian. They have left God. Because God doesn’t leave us. We do the leaving.
Louise Cummings
I don’t know what you mean about the word Osas. It if you backslide and become an apostate , you will lose Eternal life. Unless you repent and come back to God. Jesus said “ I write unto you that you sin not. But if you do sin. We have an Advocate with the Father. Jesus Christ , the Righteous. Jesus and sin doesn’t live in an unclean temple. I would look up thr Scripture. But I’m on vacation , and don’t have my materials. If back sliders went to Heaven then Judas doesn’t have anything to worry about.i know people says he was a civil from the beginning. But in John I think it is. Says Judas by transgression fell. It also says he gave all 12 of His Disciples power to heal the sick. Cast out demons. Well the Bible says Satan can’t cast out satan. Look it up and see what devil means I this place. It means falling into sin. A lot of parents call their children. Little devils. It’s very wrong for parents to say that and much more things they say to their children.
Varnel Watson
Evidence of evil spirits is voluminous and comes from many cultures, both ancient and modern. Cases from China, India, and the United States are examined and evaluated. The actual experience of spirit victims, the universality of spirit oppression, the superhuman phe-nomena associated with ‘‘possession,’’ and the comparative success of deliverance and exorcism vs. psychiatry are considered. Potential arguments against the spirit hypothesis center on the ante-cedent improbability of spirits, multiple personality disorder, and the effectiveness of medication; but these can be countered. Psychiatrists should question their materialist assumption that mental illness is strictly a matter of an aberrant brain, carefully examine the literature of pos-session, experiment to determine why exorcists and deliverance ministers often succeed where psychiatry fails, and develop a more complete inventory of techniques for healing the complete person.
Isara Mo
Troy Day
It is just amazing how one can believe there is a Satan and deny the existence of demons..
It is more amazing when it comes from a so called ” born again Christian”…a believer in Christ .
Am.very adamant that a believer who can’t cast out a demon or has never cast one out should examine their faith…should test their faith..
Jesus said. .certain signs will follow a believer and one is to cast out a demon…
A sound doctrine that cannot enable a person to cast out a demon is just as good as a false doctrine.
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo I think its the part about naming them Demons dont want to be known or named Because they can be easily ID and called out They want to go incognito Christians will admit having or existence of jezebel manipulation/ control demon as long as you dont call it jezebel WELL how you gonna cast it out if you dont call it out? They better like to keep them
RichardAnna Boyce
1 John 2:1 is speaking to believers. The apostle now enters a disclaimer. His words could be wrongly perceived as discouraging the believer’s resistance to sin. But this is not his intent. Tenderly he addresses his readers as my little children. (That his readers are genuine Christians he never doubts anywhere in his letter; cf. 2:12-14). He does not want his spiritual children to misconstrue his intention in writing these things to them. These things (i.e., 1:5-10) are not written either to excuse or to encourage sin. Instead they are written so that you may not sin.
Though sin is to be vigorously shunned, it can and does occur in the lives of believers. So John adds, And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ. As our Advocate, Jesus does not plead with God to keep us “saved.” The many promises made in John’s Gospel that guarantee the security of the believer stand against such an idea. Since Jesus’ promises are true and the believer eternally secure, there is no need for the Son to plead with the Father not to cast sinning believers away.
As their Advocate, Jesus intercedes for believers in prayer to the Father that their “faith should not fail (cf. Luke 22:31-33). Though “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” (Rom 11:29), the faith that appropriates those gifts is nevertheless subject to failure (cf. 2 Tim 2:18). Christ intercedes for believers so that this will not happen.
RichardAnna Boyce
A believer who has believed once with saving faith is saved for eternity. Continual believing is not required by God. By believing in Jesus as personal Savior to receive guaranteed eternal life; filled and sealed by Holy Spirit; no demon can exist in the same body as Holy Spirit for eternity, guaranteed 🙂
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce how does this apply to the church today?
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce have Pentecostals move to once saved and forget it?
Anonymous
A true saint is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Cannot ever be demon possessed.
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess pleaSE explain
does this mean they cannot backslide?
is once delivered always delivered Link Hudson
JESUS said 7 times worse if you keep on sinning…
Anonymous
Troy Day if you keep on sinning?
7 times the number of demons return to the empty swept and garnished former habitation…so should it be with that generation.
Anonymous
Link Hudson but Duane L Burgess says no
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess That’s not true.
Anonymous
angels dont fall, demons dont exist. demon possession is what we have under control today with MEDS!!!!!!
look at the kid who fell into water and flame = vertigo.
the man with the unclean << spirit<< (attitude), yelling in church. We got those also. epileptic fits = demon possession = no! angels dont fall. pray about that asking God believing that you will get an answer.
Anonymous
Terry Wiles even Kyle Williams cannot explain this one to Brett Dobbs and Michael Chauncey NOT to mention John Mushenhouse would tare this one apart
Anonymous
RT Ricky Grimsley If you are a calvinist, then God ordained everything to happen the way it happens. If you arminian then you believe that God knew exactly how everything was going to happen but still created you? Whats the practical difference? You both believe in an unchangeable future? https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/open-or-relational-theology-as-a-model-for-the-all-knowingness-of-god/
Anonymous
Only believers are eternally secure in Christ. We know we abide in him (are saved) when we keep his commands and love one another. Don’t give place to the devil through fleshly compromise because he’s stalking you like a roaring lion!
Anonymous
Link Hudson I know people are busy but the response to this thread might be indicative of how important the topic of the OSAS is to bapticostals.