Q: To drink in moderation or not to drink?

Q: To drink in moderation or not to drink?
Posted by Christopher Hart in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

Real Christians do not drink ANY alcohol

Real Christians do not drink ANY alcohol

Q: To drink in moderation or not to drink?

A: Neither & Both. Just don’t get drunk if you do.

Be filled with the Spirit, don’t judge or despise fellow believers otherwise, and walk in love towards those who may stumble.

John Kissinger [09/14/2015 2:59 AM]
already thoroughly disused in the group under hashtag #ToT with Alan N Carla Smith let’s stick to some NEW topics pls http://ourcog.org/?s=on+tap

Charles Page [09/14/2015 10:00 AM]
I don’t judge those who don’t drink,they are the weaker brethren. We have to take care they are not offended.

Brian Crisp [09/14/2015 10:29 AM]
The question is why would you even want to drink

Shawn Herles [09/14/2015 10:40 AM]
I don’t drink myself, for health reasons, but Jesus did and there is no biblical prohibition against drinking, just against drunkenness,

Brian Crisp [09/14/2015 10:50 AM]
Actually no Jesus never did drink any alchohol at all. The Jews especially at that time would refer to wine as alchohol, grape juice, grapes, or even jam. So when the bible says wine you have to study the whole context as to what it is referring to.

Alan N Carla Smith [09/14/2015 10:57 AM]
Brian go ahead and post the whole context here, if you don’t mind, so we can prevent the banter. Thank you

Brian Crisp [09/14/2015 10:59 AM]
LOL. That would be too time comnsuming to do that.

Alan N Carla Smith [09/14/2015 11:00 AM]
and Christopher might want to post his exegeis, concerning drinking, as well. Thank you

John Kissinger [09/14/2015 12:27 PM]
Brian Crisp your hypothesis deserves consuming time. So if you dont mind pls post the study for discussion. It will be helpful to many

Thomas Jackson [09/14/2015 5:23 PM]
The whole premise of the Cana wedding story is that you give the attendees good wine first, then bring on the not-so-good wine after they are a bit “buzzed” and can’t really tell. But Jesus made the water into alcoholic wine and it was the best yet. Jesus, being God, could have made Pepsi but he gave them wine. You really should read your Bible more…esp regarding new wine and wine. The instant the skin is cracked on a grape in that climate, it starts to ferment. They had no temperature or chemical controls to prevent that. And even if they separated alcoholic from non-alcoholic, we have absolutely nothing to say Jesus never drank alcoholic wine. “Nothing in unclean of itself…” As always, it is the human factor that makes things unclean.

Thomas Jackson [09/14/2015 5:29 PM]
Make no mistake, I do not advocate drinking alcohol. Do take issue with demonizing inanimate objects and substances. During the course of a deviated septum procedure, cocaine was used in order is help with the bleeding issue. Cocaine isn’t bad … it is how we use it. Always.

William Dick [03/09/2016 7:52 AM]
Evangelist Day, some people have what is called an addictive personality. The people we deal with can’t drink at all…..GOD bless you Brother.

182 Comments

  • Charles Page
    Reply September 4, 2016

    Charles Page

    Moderation

    • Reply May 31, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Let me add some interesting historical facts for consideration:
      Rabbinical literature teaches that refusing lawful enjoyments (one of which that explicitly mentioned is drinking wine) is a sin for which you have to give an account at the last judgment (3 cups being mentioned as max). So in orthodox judaism NOT drinking wine is sinful.
      Historical churches (catholic, orthodox, protestant) have always used alcoholic wine during eucharist/ Lord’s Supper (only recently allowing for exceptions in certain cases). In North Western Europe nobody even drank wine before the coming of Christianity. The church introduced the drinking of wine because of the eucharist, and then people started to plant vineyards. Many monasteries brew Near. In the Reformation era most protestant pastors in Germany didn’t earn enough money to make a living, so in those days almost every evangelical pastor would brew bear to make a living. Martin Luther’ s wife Catharina von Bora also brewed bear. Pentecostals and evangelicals in certain countries like Germany or the Netherlands have no problem with moderate drinking (often not even knowing that Americans hold different opinions). USA developed a different tradition a few centuries ago, due to different historical circumstances (the abuse of alcohol on the frontier and in big cities was rampant in way that it was not in other nations). So how to deal with it? Depends on the people and the historical/ cultural situation. Avoid giving offense or temptation to those who are prone to addiction). Individually/ in private you are free, if you can deal properly with that liberty
      and feel free in conscience.

  • Dennis Lear
    Reply September 4, 2016

    Dennis Lear

    The church has much greater things to deal with for this to take up any portion of its time. Personally, I agree with the stance of this great Church of God which is none. Takes a pig to make hog. History shows us the same thing happened to other, once holiness churches. They started spending more time in questioning holiness and more time losing their focus of pleasing God.

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 4, 2016

    Jon Ray

    There can be no moderation when it comes to temptation!

  • Travis Brown
    Reply September 4, 2016

    Travis Brown

    To drink!

  • Hunter D. McLain
    Reply September 5, 2016

    Hunter D. McLain

    Alcohol is a scourge to the world. It is the number one drug. You cannot claim to be a Christian and drink alcohol outside of it’s use as an ingredient in medicine. The Bible clearly condemns it. God Commands Holiness, you can’t be Holy whole being defiled with alcohol.

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Travis Brown

      So all the times God gave alcohol to Israel as a blessing we should jut ignore it?

    • Hunter D. McLain
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Hunter D. McLain

      He never gave them alcohol.

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Travis Brown

      So the first miracle? Let me guess it was just grape juice?

    • Hunter D. McLain
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Hunter D. McLain

      It was. Wine simply means fruit if the vine, it doesn’t mean it is fermented.

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Travis Brown

      No… just no.

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Travis Brown

      I understand if you have convictions against it but it’s wrong to say that anyone who drink alcohol isn’t a Christian.

    • Hunter D. McLain
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Hunter D. McLain

      It’s a drug. Can you do pot and be a Christian?

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Travis Brown

      If you can without getting high. Can you drink a beer without being drunk?

    • Hunter D. McLain
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Hunter D. McLain

      You can’t. It’s impossible. Both of those things are ingredients in medicine. You can’t drink a whole beer and not be effected.

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Travis Brown

      You’re kidding right?

    • Hunter D. McLain
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Hunter D. McLain

      No. I’m amazed that there are Pentecostals who think drinking is okay.

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Travis Brown

      I’m not Pentecostal. (Raised Pentecostal but recently realized that sola scriptura out ranked experience.) and if you can’t drink a beer don’t drink, but don’t you dare call the salvation of brothers in question for drinking in moderation.

    • Hunter D. McLain
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Hunter D. McLain

      The Bible is clear that nothing unholy will enter The Kingdom of Heaven, and The Bible is clear that alcohol is unholy, wicked and sinful. I call their Salvation into question because The Bible does.

      • Reply September 5, 2016

        Thomas Jackson

        Hunter McLain do you know the penalty for adding to or taking away from the Word. If you have a personal thing against alcohol, that is your thing. But when you ascribe that to God and His Word that is quite another. Have you ever heard “Nothing is unclean of itself.”? That is in the Bible while what you say is not. It goes on to say if something is unclean to a man. TO HIM it is unclean. That doesn’t mean you transfer your unbiblical hatred of alcohol to the Word. Folks need to start understanding that God doesn’t cease to be God if we drink. Or commit adultery. Or commit gay acts. Or do drugs. Those prohibitions do not limit God AT ALL. All of those behaviors hurt US and so God says “don’t.” When it comes to drink Jesus would not have provided the wine at the wedding if it was unholy. Stop affixing your 20th century church views to what the Bible actually says. They drank wine because it was one of the things they had. They had water, milk, wine and possibly some other fruit juices. First century Christians had no prohibition against alcohol because Jesus didn’t and they had no Hunter D. McLain to tell them Jesus couldn’t be a member of His own church because He drank wine. Let us reread our Bibles and stop putting human words in God’s Word.

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Travis Brown

      Where does it say that? I’ll agree with drunkenness but alcohol as a whole?

    • Vlad Stepanov
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Vlad Stepanov

      Cough syrup has alcohol.

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 5, 2016

      Travis Brown

      And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.
      Deuteronomy 14:24‭-‬26 ESV
      http://bible.com/59/deu.14.24-26.ESV

      God legit tells Israel to buy strong drink if their appetite craves it and then to consume it to his glory lol

  • James H. Boyd
    Reply September 5, 2016

    James H. Boyd

    Would lightning strike me if I were to drink a beer or a glass of wine? Probably not, but I have still always felt it was something I was better off without.

  • David Lewayne Porter
    Reply September 5, 2016

    David Lewayne Porter

    Is it a PERSONAL weight to us concerning our testimony and spiritual lives?
    Heb 12:1
    Hebrews 12:1
    Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

    We don’t just lay aside sin;
    We also lay aside weights.

    Be blessed.

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 5, 2016

    Jon Ray

    The scorch of drinking and sipping pastors and preachers is yet to blow out of proportions in modern day neo – charismata http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/newspring-removes-perry-noble-due-to-alcoholism/

  • Brenda Smith
    Reply September 5, 2016

    Brenda Smith

    Just be like Jesus…Matt 26:29 ..and let it be for the first time to taste wine at that time with Him. Then how can you go wrong? That’s my take…and I’m sticking with it!!

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 5, 2016

    Jon Ray

    There are at least 75 SCRIPTURE WARNINGS AGAINST DRINKING of ALCOHOL http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/tot-75-scripture-warnings-against-drinking-of-alcohol/

  • David Lewayne Porter
    Reply September 5, 2016

    David Lewayne Porter

    And Several more allowing it.
    So then, Romans 14 (as you can by faith).

    The scriptures do say (don’t be drunk/drunken) by wine, strong or mixed drink.

    Now let’s remove the cultural stigma of western civilizations,,,,
    Christians elsewhere that drink wine like water due to their impure water supplies that do not get drunk and think nothing of it (they are well within their biblical rights, liberty, and guidelines).

    So then you gonna tell them by the entirety of Scripture they are to be a Teetotaler?

    You cant.

    Drunkenness is the sin.
    The question would be, is drinking a weight for that individual as referenced in Heb 12:1.

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 5, 2016

    Jon Ray

    Good question! We’ve given before these 50 Reasons Why not to Drink Alcohol #ToT http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/50-reasons-why-i-dont-drink-alcohol-ourcog-tot/

  • David Lewayne Porter
    Reply September 5, 2016

    David Lewayne Porter

    Yeah,
    Even though I am personally a Teetotaler, I can’t discount the verses that allow it.

    Luke 7:33-35
    For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! But wisdom is justified of all her children.
    (Just so we can be sure what John did not drink, Luke 1:15
    For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb).

    Luke 5:39
    No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better. (Old wine – aged, seasoned, fermented).

    Ephesians 5:18
    And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
    1 Timothy 3:8
    Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
    Titus 2:3
    The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
    1 Peter 4:3
    For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

    Here is a thought
    Romans 14:21
    It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
    (If wine is grape juice, how does grape juice offend anyone?)?

    Or this is my favorite
    Vss 20&21
    1 Corinthians 11:17-34
    Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.

    **For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
    What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?**

    or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

    How are you drunken off of grape juice (and this was at church gatherings and fellowship)..

    Blessings

  • Ricky Grimsley
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    I agree with David Lewayne Porter

  • John Conger
    Reply September 6, 2016

    John Conger

    Yeah but it doesn’t matter. People’s minds are usually made up. Doesn’t matter what bible says

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Jon Ray

    Seen too many good Christian folk lost to alcohol…

  • Travis Brown
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Travis Brown

    And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.
    Deuteronomy 14:24‭-‬26 ESV
    http://bible.com/59/deu.14.24-26.ESV

    God legit tells Israel to buy strong drink if their appetite craves it and then to consume it to his glory lol

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Jon Ray

    The drinking argument without getting drunk is about as solid as doing drugs without getting high. Stands no chance in a court of law. And I personally dont see how anyone could use it before the court of God!

    • John Conger
      Reply September 6, 2016

      John Conger

      How is that comparable? Can you ever use a drug without getting high? No can you ever drink without getting drunk? Of course. Once again. When someone’s mind is made up facts are irrelevant

    • David Lewayne Porter
      Reply September 6, 2016

      David Lewayne Porter

      Then Jon Ray
      You willingly over look some scriptures in favor of your personal beliefs?

    • Jon Ray
      Reply September 7, 2016

      Jon Ray

      Yeah – I dont think so!

  • John Conger
    Reply September 6, 2016

    John Conger

    Let me ask everyone in this thread, what are your thoughts about medicine that alters your consciousness? Oxytocin, morphine, etc all have legitimate medical uses. Are they a sin to use? What about someone in hospice? Would you deny your loved one morphine?

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 6, 2016

      Travis Brown

      Don’t ask for consistency in this thread. They ignore text that clearly states God gives strong drinks as a blessing by saying but don’t get drunk. If someone gets drunk off one drink then don’t drink!

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 6, 2016

      Charles Page

      if it takes four glasses to get drunk then only drink one or two. Don’t drink to excess.

    • David Lewayne Porter
      Reply September 6, 2016

      David Lewayne Porter

      What about medicines that contain alcohol?

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 6, 2016

      Charles Page

      the sop Jesus took contained a solidier’s narcotic

  • Charles Page
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Charles Page

    Jesus rejected the first offer of medication on the cross and then accepted the second offer at the end.

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Jon Ray

    How did one of the most powerful healing preachers AA Allen become a drunk? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/aa-allen-was-a-mighty-man-of-the-spirit-but/

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 6, 2016

      Charles Page

      alcoholism stems from a personality disorder, an addictive behavior syndrone

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 6, 2016

      Travis Brown

      Charles Page or idolatry.

    • David Lewayne Porter
      Reply September 6, 2016

      David Lewayne Porter

      How, he did not heed the scriptural admonition to “not be drunk”.
      That is how, it was that simple.
      He over looked Romans 14 – that by faith with a clear conscience.
      He over looked Heb 12:1 the sin and every weight.

      The brother had more than one issue.

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Jon Ray

    Thank you FB for picking up Seymore’s picture to go with AA Allen. Can anyone in this group quote a single line by Seymore? (without looking it up or google ???)

  • Charles Page
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Charles Page

    Tee-totalism does not have a Biblical base only a base in prohibition.

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Jon Ray

    William Branham was born in Berksville, Kentucky, in dire poverty. At the age of 5, he heard “a voice” who directed him to abstain from coffee, smoking and alcohol. This disembodied voice was later given credit for his unusual healing powers by William himself

    • Travis Brown
      Reply September 6, 2016

      Travis Brown

      Well good for him. Now scripture.

    • David Lewayne Porter
      Reply September 6, 2016

      David Lewayne Porter

      Romans 14, and the brother did well to adhere to the voice.
      Yet he could not press everyone to be that way (according to the same set of Scriptures).

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Jon Ray

    AA Allen was another mighty preacher who ended up in #SIN and so would many others who do not practice the way of holiness!

  • Travis Brown
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Travis Brown

    So a preacher sinned and that’s why we have to totally abstain?

  • Jon Ray
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Jon Ray

    Please read carefully before question openly without having much Biblical backing http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/tot-75-scripture-warnings-against-drinking-of-alcohol/

  • Charles Page
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Charles Page

    If you are not going to drink then men should have short hair and women should not bob their hair nor be arrayed in costly adornment.

    • Jon Ray
      Reply September 6, 2016

      Jon Ray

      Clean shaved too. None of these sin full beards

    • David Lewayne Porter
      Reply September 6, 2016

      David Lewayne Porter

      Clean shaved?
      And yet our Saviour
      Isaiah 50:6
      I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

  • John Conger
    Reply September 6, 2016

    John Conger

    There are many good good reasons not to drink. But that doesn’t make it sin. Doesn’t the scripture warn about the perils of marriage? Should we abstain completely from marriage? Lol

  • Charles Page
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Charles Page

    Many Pentecostal preachers have the same personality disorder as AA Allen. They are in as great a need of healing as Allen himself.

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 6, 2016

      Charles Page

      abstaining does not bring about a healing it just covers the sickness.

  • Travis Brown
    Reply September 6, 2016

    Travis Brown

    Again context matters. Most of those are talking about drunkenness. I condemn drunkenness but alcohol has a proper context. Such as communion.

    • Jon Ray
      Reply September 7, 2016

      Jon Ray

      A scripture to back this one particularly would be so very nice at this point in the discussion

  • Troy Day
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Troy Day

    “I say nay unto thee sayeth…” Tony Conger Ricky Grimsley

  • Troy Day
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Troy Day

    Moderating the spirit? I think not…

  • Ricky Grimsley
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    I feel the scriptures teach that drunkenness is a sin but having a drink isnt. I personally dont have the desire to drink but i do believe that Jesus turned the water into actual wine. It certainly isnt profitable for our christian walk.

  • Troy Day
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Troy Day

    No one can moderate the devil. If we could there would have been no need for Jesus to ever die on a cross on our behalf!

    • Reply June 5, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      My chemistry teacher taught me many years ago that if you drink more than twenty liters of water it’s poisonous, and the same oxygen that you need to lives ultimately makes your body age and wil kill you. So by your own logic water and oxygen are also the evil. Aristotle already taught that every virtue is a middle between Two extremes.

  • Charles Page
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Charles Page

    Jesus moderated the devil
    Chained him to the pit

  • Troy Day
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Troy Day

    I have to agree with Hunter D. McLain It’s a drug. Can you do pot and be a Christian? I’m too amazed that there are Pentecostals who think drinking is okay.

  • Charles Page
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Charles Page

    Jesus turned water into a drug

  • Ricky Grimsley
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    If you are gonna use the “its a drug” argument, be prepared to eat or drink caffeine or take medicines, since they are also drugs. Dont have surgery with anesthesia etc.

  • Charles Page
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Charles Page

    You could use pot and be a Christian

  • Ricky Grimsley
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Ricky Grimsley

    Is it any different than christians using xanax?1 Timothy 5:23 KJVS
    [23] Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.

  • Vlad Stepanov
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Vlad Stepanov

    We use pots. Lots of them. We mainly cook food in them.

    Alcohol is a drug, and so is caffeine, cough syrup, pain pills…many things.

  • Tony Conger
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Tony Conger

    I’m a firm believer that altering your conscience with substances for recreation is wrong

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charles Page

      Do you drink coffee?

    • Tony Conger
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Tony Conger

      That’s not altering your conscience but no I don’t

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charles Page

      I’ll be having a glass of wine this evening
      Will my conscience be altered?

    • Charlie Robin
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charlie Robin

      Make sure it meets the Biblical requirements i.e.(1) Power water in glass (2) Pray over it (3) Wait until it turns into wine. No other way is Biblical and God would not have you use it David Lewayne Porter

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charles Page

      If I drink a glass of wine God will disapprove?

    • Charlie Robin
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charlie Robin

      Is it for your stomach ache?

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charles Page

      To my health

    • Charlie Robin
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charlie Robin

      Noah had a little wine one day. It didnt work to well…

    • Tony Conger
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Tony Conger

      No doubt

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charles Page

      Charlie Robin
      Noah passed out drunk

    • Charlie Robin
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charlie Robin

      Yeah, a little drinking dont work for lots of people

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charles Page

      think Noah had an addictive personality?

    • Tony Conger
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Tony Conger

      I doubt Noah had a drink in moderation. Plus it wasn’t against the law

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charles Page

      If he drank after the flood don’t you think he drank before the flood. I’ll bet there were days he got so drunk he couldn’t work on the ark!

    • Charlie Robin
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charlie Robin

      Moderation drinking is subject of alteration thinking

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charles Page

      Charlie Robin what is alteration thinking.

    • Charlie Robin
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charlie Robin

      is what you get with moderation drinking before you pass out into sin sinking

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charles Page

      Charlie Robinyou are trying to enforce man made rules. stems from the age of prohibition.

    • Charlie Robin
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charlie Robin

      These were already enforced by John and Paul in the big black book you sold on ebay

    • Charles Page
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charles Page

      Charlie RobinYou think!

    • Charlie Robin
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charlie Robin

      John: Drink only wine Jesus turned from water
      Paul: Drink wine only for your stomach ache
      Jesus: Dont drink it until new in the Kingdom
      NT rightly divided – it’s all there…

    • Tony Conger
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Tony Conger

      Jesus Didnt say that. come on Thats dishonest

    • Charlie Robin
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charlie Robin

      Matthew 26:29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.

    • Vlad Stepanov
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Vlad Stepanov

      he was referring to himself

    • Charlie Robin
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Charlie Robin

      WWJD? Go and do the same! WWJD?

  • Tom Steele
    Reply September 29, 2016

    Tom Steele

    This video is an interesting message to consider on this topic. While the group that put it together seems to be for drinking (in moderation), around the 10:07 point in the video they do a side-by-side with Scriptures for and against drinking. They then provide a chart that shows, of the verses that talk about wine/alcohol, about 16.6% are neutral, 25.7% are against and 58.7% are “for”. Here’s the thing, while there is not a single verse that outright commands against drinking (unlike such things as eating pork or other unclean things, of which Scripture calls an abomination and says that the Messiah will destroy those who do so when He returns). With that said, it is clear from what is presented in this video between the 10:07 mark and the 10:42 mark that there is enough support to both sides to create a certain uncertainty and prohibit the ability to draw a solid and absolute conclusion one way or the other. Christians who oppose drinking often use the ideology toward those in favor, “If you (the supporter of drinking) are right, and I am wrong, then it won’t matter and I (the opposer) will simply make it to heaven without enjoying the experience of drinking alcohol. On the other hand, if I (the opposer) am right, and you (the supporter) are wrong, it creates the POSSIBILITY that only one of us will be granted access to heaven.” The “possibility” being the fact that if drinking is a violation of Scripture, this would make is a sin and thus creating the potential that the result of drinking, even in moderation, is eternal damnation in hell. For anything that there is even a small possibility that the Scripture condemns a particular action to the point of being sentenced to eternity in hell, it becomes wisdom to stay as far from that thing as possible. Unless it can be shown absolutely conclusively from Scripture that God WANTS us to drink (alcohol) and has INSTRUCTED us to drink (alcohol), then I must conclude and contend that a Believer should abstain from any and all consumption of alcohol, with the possible only exception being as used for medical purposes (as supported by Paul’s message to Timothy). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F9KeFyLBZQ

    • Morry Deed
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Morry Deed

      So what verse does it say the messiah will destroy people for eating pork?

    • Tom Steele
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Tom Steele

      Isaiah 66:17

    • Tom Steele
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Tom Steele

      If you want details, I have a number of messages listed on this page, including one that explains the prophecies of Isaiah in depth. https://truthignitedministry.wordpress.com/

    • Morry Deed
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Morry Deed

      Says nothing about the Messiah. I think you have blown the context out!

    • Tom Steele
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Tom Steele

      Read the whole chapter, compare it to Revelation 19. The entire chapter of Isaiah 66 is clearly about the Second Coming.

    • Morry Deed
      Reply September 29, 2016

      Morry Deed

      I wouldn’t build a theology on it.

    • Tom Steele
      Reply September 30, 2016

      Tom Steele

      Again, please read through my work on the topic, all listed on the above link (with more articles coming soon). When you understand the relationship between such things as dietary and agricultural laws from the OT and the design of creation, you will know why it is so important to God. When you understand that violating the laws of clean diet according to Lev. 11 and Deut. 14, you will understand that they are the most violated of all commandments in Scripture, which will help to bring understanding to why it is such a serious issue with God. IF, and I will agree that it is an IF… IF eating unclean things like pork and shellfish is enough to be cast into hell over, then we must consider it against other acts of sin. There IS enough Scriptural basis to conclude that is is an IF, however, and that we cannot say absolutely one way or the other, which means it is something we should at least take seriously and treat as something that can lead to eternity in hell. So, let’s compare sinners, let’s compare pig-eaters with murderers. Assuming that unclean eating is a sin that leads to eternity in hell, if you had the opportunity to turn every murderer in the world today to repentance OR you had the opportunity to turn everyone who eats unclean animals, which would you choose? This is hypothetical, of course, we need to lead everyone we can to Christ, but for the sake of argument consider the scenario. If you were only given the power to save one group or the other, which would you choose? Considering which percentage of the world’s population are murderers and which are merely guilty of eating things God said not to eat, the choice should be easy. You would clearly win more people to Christ if you chose to lead everyone guilty of eating unclean things to the truth. We tend to look at “big sins” as those things that we have been conditioned to view as extremely immoral, like murder or rape. God sees all sin as equal, sin is sin, so in God’s eyes the “big sins” would be those sins that the majority of people are committing, which are usually those things that we perceive as “minor infractions, hardly worthy of judgment.” For such a long time the thinking within the body of Christ has been completely backwards. It’s time to reform our thinking, get back to the Word of God, view it from the perspective of the people who God spoke His Word through, the Hebrew people, from the language(s) they wrote in (Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic), and stop trying to interpret English Bibles with a 21st Century American perspective.

    • Morry Deed
      Reply September 30, 2016

      Morry Deed

      I’m ex SDA & I don’t agree at all. Your entitled to your “grace of Christ” is not enough theology. Not for me bro.

    • Tom Steele
      Reply September 30, 2016

      Tom Steele

      I’m not SDA, far from it.

  • Louise Cummings
    Reply September 30, 2016

    Louise Cummings

    Not to drink. I over heard someone telling about one church where they believed in moderation. She came in stumbling one Sunday. What I understood it happen pretty often. I came home that evening and was pray Lord bring us back to Holiness. You see moderation to me is an excuse. Some might stick. But most of the time it goes farther. I don’t believe Jesus made fermented drinks. But everyone to their own belief. But I came home and prayed and cried so much. And said Lord I didn’t know this was so much in our churches. Let’s please try to turn our churches and our Nation back to You.

  • Joseph D. Absher
    Reply October 30, 2016

    Joseph D. Absher

    “a little wine for Thy stomach sake” is not Tequila on Friday night, or Jack Daniels on Saturday, or a Bloody Mary on Sunday morning….

  • Reply June 21, 2019

    wade whittaker

    What about Proverbs 31:6-7? I’m no theologian, but that sounds pretty clear-cut to me.

  • Isara Mo
    Reply June 21, 2019

    Isara Mo

    Take a full glass of whisky, then take a full glass of water …that is what I call moderation.
    This is like a scenario of flirting with a lady and not taking her to bed….As long as it is flirting, it is not sexual…that is the assumption.
    Jesus said the moment you look at a woman lustfully you have already committed adultery…
    I really can’t understand a “Christian” who takes a whiff of brandy or a puff of cigar or a sniff of cocaine… and say they have a relationship with God..
    Anything which can alter our sobriety is not commendable in spirituality..
    No wonder no major religion or spiritual discipline allows alcohol…
    Why are people trying to twist scriptures to to fit their views, instead of letting the scriptures twist their views..?
    Alcohol is X rated in heaven…
    No drunkards shall inherit the kingdom doesn’t give the amount of ALLOWABLE ALCOHOL..

    • Charles Page
      Reply June 21, 2019

      Charles Page

      Why are people trying to twist scriptures to to fit their views, instead of letting the scriptures twist their views..?

    • Tara Sing Bhandari
      Reply June 21, 2019

      Tara Sing Bhandari

      Isara Mo I wonder Kingdom and Heaven is same or different ?

    • Isara Mo
      Reply June 22, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Tara Sing Bhandari

      KINGDOM
      /ˈkɪŋdəm/

      noun
      1.
      a country,
      state,
      or territory
      RULED by
      a king or queen.
      OR you can call Kingdom : realm, domain, dominion, country, land, nation, state, sovereign state, province, territory; More
      2.
      the spiritual reign or authority of God.
      1.Kingdom
      2.Heaven
      The two Kingdom and Heaven means or kingdom of heaven mean a spiritual realm(territory) ruled by God..who is a KING over all the kings and kingdoms(including earth).
      Some call it the Kingdom of Heaven, others the Kingdom of God…but it is the same thing..
      So by definition, kingdom and heaven have different meanings, but put together, ie the Kingdom of Heaven they mean a ” country” called “Heaven” which has a “KING”….

    • Tara Sing Bhandari
      Reply June 22, 2019

      Tara Sing Bhandari

      Can we build the kingdom on the earth/world ? as the children of God ,
      If yes,
      What are the tools to build the kingdom ?

    • Isara Mo
      Reply June 22, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Tara Sing Bhandari
      When the disciples asked Jesus to teach them how to pray, one of the elements of that prayer was” Let your Kingdom come……”
      The verse reads:
      // Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
      Matthew 6:10 KJV//
      The verse has two salient points:
      1)Thy kingdom come..(Which means it was not there…)
      2) Thy will be done on earth as it is HEAVEN..( absence of Gods will on earth)…
      The disciples were supposed to pray for these two things, the coming of the Kingdom of God, and the execution of Gods will on earth…which they didnt…as far as I gather from the scriptures..unless you tell me otherwise.
      However in the course of His ministry Jesus also said this” If I cast out demons by the finger of God then the Kingdom has come..”
      This is the verse;

      //But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
      Matthew 12:28 KJV//
      In another occasion, Jesus told Peter ” I will give you the KEYS OF THE KINGDOM, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven…
      In 1 John 3:8 it is written ” For this purpose the Son of God was revealed …TO DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL…
      After saying all that (back to your question) you can see that the Kingdom of God has already come on earth(Jesus said that, and also because of the manifestation of Jesus..King of Kings, Lord of Lords as fully man and fully God, and because of the establishment of the church..ie a gathering of sons of God on earth…I can say the Kingdom has come..
      Question: Has the Kingdom been established, built, or is it being built?..
      Was it Gods purpose to build His Kingdom on earth?😁
      Jesus said He will build a church(on earth) and the gates of hell shall not overcome it….
      Was the church meant to be a tool to build a Kingdom of God on earth?..
      I have avoided answering your question with obvious yes and no answers because your question has (for me) many un answered questions..
      Lets hope someone versatile on Kingdom matters, especially the Kingdom of God, can come forward and answer your difficult question..
      Have I helped in any way?

  • Troy Day
    Reply June 21, 2019

    Troy Day

    Charles Page speaks in tongues while sipping

    • Isara Mo
      Reply June 22, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Troy Day
      You know how loose the tongue becomes when loosed by wine?..
      So loooose

  • David Asbury
    Reply June 21, 2019

    David Asbury

    Do not drink think on it fermented grape juice is rotten juice it has yeast leaven in it which represents sin new wine is fresh unfermented juice being drunk is walking in the flesh not the sprit if by the Holy Ghost you put to death the deeds of the body you shall live

  • Louise Cummings
    Reply June 22, 2019

    Louise Cummings

    Keep preaching it.

  • Troy Day
    Reply June 22, 2019

    Troy Day

    Tom Steele did Jews use fermented grape juice is rotten juice it has yeast leaven in it which represents sin ?

  • Charles Page
    Reply June 22, 2019

    Charles Page

    moderation…don’t get drunk!

    • Isara Mo
      Reply June 22, 2019

      Isara Mo

      Charles Page
      Yes, like Lot

    • Troy Day
      Reply June 22, 2019

      Troy Day

      BIBLE says nothing about no moderation Charles Page drink with moderation – NOT in the BIBLE Alan Smith

  • Troy Day
    Reply December 31, 2019

    Troy Day

    Earl Jensen NEW TESTAMENT ONLY – I challenge you to SHOW us even ONE New Testament reference that proves that NT Christians today can drink alcohol – not simply use but DRINK as social drinking which was your previous point I am calling out

  • John E Ollis
    Reply December 31, 2019

    John E Ollis

    I choose NOT 2 drink

  • Troy Day
    Reply December 31, 2019

    Troy Day

    John E Ollis good choice of FREE WILL with a clear BIBLICAL base – Jesus wants is clear minded in 2020 and beyond

    • John E Ollis
      Reply December 31, 2019

      John E Ollis

      Troy Day amen, only the wine of the Spirit

    • Troy Day
      Reply December 31, 2019

      Troy Day

      John E Ollis so says the BIBLE

    • John E Ollis
      Reply December 31, 2019

      John E Ollis

      Troy Day o that God’s people would learn to be CONTINUALLY filled with the Spirit Eph.5:18

    • Troy Day
      Reply December 31, 2019

      Troy Day

      John E Ollis TRUE for this very reason I have challenged the theology of Earl Jensen above but he’s no where to be found as it seems today Maybe 2020 then

  • Michael Ellis Carter Jr.
    Reply December 31, 2019

    Michael Ellis Carter Jr.

    Troy Day I don’t drink the personal choice but not because I think scripture forbids, I realize the kingdom will not come by meat or drink. Christians should not Be drunk with wine or strong drink. We should honor our bodies as the temple of God..

  • Troy Day
    Reply December 31, 2019

    Troy Day

    Michael Ellis Carter Jr. BUT scripture strictly forbids IT

  • Troy Day
    Reply December 31, 2019

    Troy Day

    Earl Jensen 1 Timothy 5:23 English Standard Version (ESV)
    23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

    This verse properly exegeted RichardAnna Boyce is only a personal recommendation to a person who had a sickness and no good water – are you one such person? then the BIBLE does not permit you to drink wine except if your name is Timothy of Ephesus and STRONGLY FEEL Paul wrote you personally; in such case you may also want to consult a more professional medical help

  • John Broussard
    Reply May 20, 2020

    John Broussard

    Would anyone believe that Jesus would condone something that has destroyed so many families lives. Jesus would not condone not even in moderation. Moderation leads to overuse which leads to destruction.

    • Robert Cox
      Reply May 21, 2020

      Robert Cox

      John Broussard

      “Dancing leads to sex”

      Just playing. I agree with you.

  • Troy Day
    Reply May 21, 2020

    Troy Day

    lots a people DRINK cause they like it in church Neil Steven Lawrence them ppl need to be sanctified fully

  • Kaylea McAlister
    Reply May 21, 2020

    Kaylea McAlister

    As a recovering addict i cant drink in moderation so i just dont drink. I think its like for a lot of people though, not only addicts/alcoholics. Some people are the type to have a glass or two with dinner or before bed. I think thats how Jesus drank it.

  • Shawn Dollar
    Reply May 21, 2020

    Shawn Dollar

    I’m not aware of any direct New Testament doctrine regarding alcohol, except that we should not get drunk (Eph 5).

    In dealing with believers in India, I’ve noticed that they all regard any alcoholic drinking as sinful (whenever it has come up). This is probably a situation like the eating of food sacrificed to idols in 1 Corinthians 8. We should not judge each other about it (also Rom 14), but we should also avoid offending or stumbling anyone.

  • Joe Absher
    Reply May 31, 2020

    Joe Absher

    you loading up the threads today . what’s really going on?

  • Troy Day
    Reply May 31, 2020

    Troy Day

    this is a MUST for Pentecostal – oh how I hate me some with a passion the sipping preachers out there Real Christians do not drink ANY alcohol

    http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/real-christians-do-not-drink-any-alcohol/

  • Daniel J Hesse
    Reply May 31, 2020

    Daniel J Hesse

    Even sangria too?

  • Troy Day
    Reply May 31, 2020

    Troy Day

    well this is how we see this social drinking issue

  • Rick Slotboom
    Reply June 1, 2020

    Rick Slotboom

    Not drinking alcohol is not pentecostal or evangelical. It’s American culture. In some countries like the Netherlands or Germany pentecostals or evangelicals have always allowed moderate drinking (which has roots in the birth of evangelical christianity in the 16th century in Germany). Even for pentecostal pastors here it’s not unusual to drink a glass of beer together. Many evangelicals here do not even know that Americans evangelicals/ pentecostals don’t drink. See my comment on the original website die some historical info from church history. American evangelicals had, in the past, good reasons to introduce abstention, due to historical reasons, but it’s not the bible and it’s not mandatory under all circumstances. The decision that you make in this depends on context and your personal condition.

  • Troy Day
    Reply June 1, 2020

    Troy Day

    are you aware of ANY early Pentecostals who drunk? I am not Rick Slotboom Pls give an example Puritans did not drink

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Troy Day here in the Netherlands Pentecostals and evangelicals have always done that, and probably in Germany too. I heard Andrew Wommack tell that during one of his sermons people were drinking big pints of bear during his preaching (which he respected as a cultural difference). I was shocked when I heard that, but when I asked my German uncle about it, he said that of the service is in a cafe, people feel they have the right to do that. Another good example would be Willem Ouweneel, a very conservative evangelical and charismatic professor of theology, for many years the leading evangelical theologian of our country, who told hoe, decades ago, he landed on a US airport and asked his American host to publicly order a bear. He didn’t even know that American evangelicals don’t do that. In fact, in the 16th century virtually every evangelical pastor would brew bear to make a living, so it’s a centuries old tradition for northwestern evangelicals. (Which is continued, for example by a protestant reverend who is a friend of mine and, together with his brother owns a brewery.) In countries like Belgium, Germany, and the Netherlands we also have a very long history of monasteries brewing bear. What we do see is that often if there is financial support from the USA (for example for theological schools) there is a demand on students for abstinence that nobody believes in.

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Even Martin Luther’ s wife, Catharina von Bora, brewed bear

    • Troy Day
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Troy Day

      Rick Slotboom that would have been veery very HARD for her to brew a bear Maybe she could have started with a rabbit

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      It’s a bit difficult to find information on this topic with respect to the early Dutch Pentecostal movement in the Netherlands. For conservative reformed christians here, using alcohol has always been acceptable. I can ‘t find information about the early Dutch Pentecostal movement.

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      If there has been a change, than it would probably have been on the heals of the charismatic movement in the traditional churches

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      To be honest, before I heard about how Americans think about these things, I’d never even considered it. When I was an evangelical adolescent (and evangelicals didn’t have all these crazy liberal things of today back then) evangelical youths would drink naturally, but be very moderate, generally (certainly much more than liberal christians). It’s really a cultural difference.

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Troy Day O no, German women a very strong, especially in those days. Actually, I think Luther even Happened to call his wife ‘mister Kaete’ because she did so many things

  • Troy Day
    Reply June 1, 2020

    Troy Day

    Rick Slotboom THANK GOD most Pentecostals are NOT in the Netherlands then

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Troy Day I think you should learn to be a bit more respecful of believers in other cultures, especially on minor issues, rather than imperialistically to impose culture views without biblical foundation. I’ve researched Paul’s theology on Law and grace for more than one year full time with more than 6000pp. Scientific exegetical literature. Imposing your culture on christians of other cultures is an expression of the religious spirit. It’s sinful cultural imperialism of which you need to repent. I respect that people in the states are doing things differently, but I’m not living in the States. Or do you want to be holier than Jesus? He was also accused of drinking too much wine

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Luke 7:34

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Troy Day Without the Netherlands there wouldn’t even be a Pentecostal movement. Much of the Calvinist roots of America are from (especially) 17th century Dutch calvinism. The Glorious Revolution in Great Britain in 1688 which established Britain as a protestant country was led by Dutch stadhouder William who became King of England of the Anabaptist movement (Menno Simonsz) had its roots in the Netherlands. The baptist movement started in Amsterdam (those two being important roots of American Free church traditions like Pentecostalism). The First Great Awakening in the US A started in Dutch Reformed churches (rev Frelinhuysen). Without the Netherlands there would not even be an American revivalist tradition. And therefore no Pentecostal either. And Dutch Pentecostals are everywhere around the globe, and some of the most vibrant church planters. You don’t even know what you’re talking about.

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Almost everything that has made America Great was borrowed from the Netherlands, with some British improments: in religious liberty, business, christianity. What you are saying is just a ridiculous display of ignorance.

  • Rick Slotboom
    Reply June 1, 2020

    Rick Slotboom

    I know the Anglosaxon evangelical world has a different tradition, but that’s just that: man made tradition (though for good reason, under certain historical circumstances).

    • Troy Day
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Troy Day

      aint Dutch Low Saxon are the Low Saxon dialects that are spoken in the northeastern Netherlands? The Amish dont drink either

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Troy Day There are certain Eastern parts of the Netherlands where they speak Low Saxon dialects, like where I grew up, but that has nothing to do with al alcohol. And as far as I know we don’t have Amish here.

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Just read that the Amish migrated to USA in 18th century. Before you asked I never even knew they had been here. And the’re a radical split off of the mennonites, not even representative of that group

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Troy Day Interestingly, in rabbinical literature, refusing lawful enjoyments (drinking wine is explicitly mentioned) is a sin for which you have to give an account at the last judgment (allowing Max 3 cups of wine). So maybe you are unconsciously living in sin (just teasing 😉)

    • Rick Slotboom
      Reply June 1, 2020

      Rick Slotboom

      Actually, here in North West Europe, before the coming of Christianity nobody even drank wine. They started planting vineyards because wine was necessarily for the Eucharist. So for many centuries, refusing to drink wine would almost equal refusing to be a christian.

  • Gerardo de Dominicis

    Once an Argentinian Christian told this story: In Argentina, due to the big immigration they had from Germany and other European countries, the evangelicals tend to drink alcohol (beer and wine) is something normal there. When the American missionaries arrived in Argentina they were shocked seeing that evangelicals (even pastors) use to drink alcohol. The prohibition of drinking alcohol is an American tradition, isn’t mandatory.

  • Troy Day
    Reply June 1, 2020

    Troy Day

    church folk just wanna get drunk or get on CBD Danny Kircharr Robert Cox aint that the truth For sure

  • Rick Slotboom
    Reply June 2, 2020

    Rick Slotboom

    Pentecostal studies scholars Walter Hollenweger and Allen Anderson pointed out that one of the most powerful and distinctive characteristics behind the Pentecostal movement is the ability to flexibally adapt to different cultures. If you study the work of the Spirit and the grace of God in the NT you’ll find the same there.

  • Rick Slotboom
    Reply June 2, 2020

    Rick Slotboom

    And supposing that moderate drinking equals ‘wanting to get drunk’ is sheer ignorance. Many Europeans are very good at being moderate. Even some unbelievers in nu family would always stop after three glasses of beer, because of the influence of traditional protestant culture. I think one of the problems is that Americans have often little knowledge or understanding of other cultures and then are too quick to judge or impose their own views. However, The apostle Paul was a Jew to the Jews and a Greek to the Greeks. The Kingdom of God doesn’t consist in eating or drinking but in righteousness joy and peace in the Holy Ghost. Americans should learn to make a clearer distinction between God’s Kingdom and American culture politics, because too many pentecostal missionaries have been an extension of corrupt American politics, doing great harm to the witness of the Gospel. I think that it is for good reason that many unbelieving people in other countries have often been suspicious of American missionaries as being an expension of geopolitics (which has demonstrably the case, like the Rockefellers funding many Pentecostal missionaries to Latin America together with US government (see Colby, The Kingdom Come). This is also the reason that Chinese missionaries are often much more effective in reaching people in the muslim world than Americans.

  • Rick Slotboom
    Reply June 2, 2020

    Rick Slotboom

    William Seymour taught us that the main sign of the baptism in the Holy Spirit is LOVE, especially between people of different ethnicities and cultures. Same in Acts 2, people ‘from every nation under heaven’ being represented. Because America is so powerful, I think to a great extent Religion and politics have become mixed up, leading to a great amount of spiritual deception. The national spiritual rulers of the people are both political, nationally organized and linked up with the religious spirit. I can back this up with extensive NT scholarship. Especially the American church is under a consideratie amount of spiritual deception, because of it’s linking of national culture, politics and religion, which the NT links to the principalities and powers. Do judge people on the basis of things which the NT considers adiapheroonta (indifferent things). There’s just so little discernment in the body of Christ.

  • Doyle Rogers
    Reply June 2, 2020

    Doyle Rogers

    HAVING TAUGHT in Peniel Ministries Rehab .and being witnessed to the curse of Alcoholic beverages , I would recommend that it be left alone . I will be 86 on the 20th of this month , and I don’t know the taste of beer whiskey or wine.. I haven’t missed any thing but the sorrow Paine and death they cause. . I don’t need the joy of any occasion to be dulled by alcohol. I want to live life in the fullest. ……………… 2Ti_1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. .

  • Troy Day
    Reply June 2, 2020

    Troy Day

    dont be social drinking Doyle Rogers Rick Slotboom

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