I was visiting in Texas…

I was visiting in Texas and was being shown the…
Posted by Melvin Harter in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post

I was visiting in Texas and was being shown the various Church of Gods in the area. My host stated to me that I would not fit into certain CoGs because they utilize the charismatic music, drama and dancers, something that I preach against. Then I was taken to another CoG and told that this would be the one that I would fit in because they are the “Old-Time” Church of God. Of course, I do not believe in the “Old-Time” Church of God because I do not think there is such a thing. To imply such a statement means the opposite is true; in this case, “New-Time” CoG. I believe that church should be like that on the Day of Pentecost, a place and people where the Spirit of God is present. So it seems to me that today there are two different kind of CoGs in the land; the modern/worldly and the holiness. A major problem is, the two cannot mix in the CoG. One will come out on top. I think I can predict which one it will be. I say instead of the dance, why don’t we teach our young people about prayer and the power of God? How many CoG young people have actually seen a miracle? I can tell you the answer, “just about no one.” Such a shame. Many preachers fail in what our Lord commissioned us to do – HEAL THE SICK, CAST OUT DEVIL.

25 Comments

  • They are correct there is one in McAllen that I won’t go to I’m 52 and youngest there. All red back and dead spirituality.

  • Reply July 7, 2016

    Charles Page

    dead because they don’t twist and shake???

  • No dead because no God there

  • Reply July 7, 2016

    Charles Page

    but God is in the dancing and flag twirling and fog machines?

  • Reply July 9, 2016

    Link Hudson

    Melvin Harter, I don’t normally correct people’s grammar online, but that should be ‘churches of God’ not ‘Church of Gods’. One God.

  • Reply July 9, 2016

    Link Hudson

    Melvin Harter, is there any reason, from the Bible, to think that modern choruses sung to an electric guitar, are any less holy than old timey sounding hymns sung to an acoustic guitar with a bit of twangy steel guitar thrown in? Some of the new stuff can be kind of fluffy, but some of it is powerful, taken right out of the Psalms and other scriptures. Some of the hymns are powerful, and some aren’t.

    As far as dancing goes, when I first saw the ‘intentional’ type dancing in church, that was strange ot me. I knew some people were against it unless it was ‘dancing in the spirit’ which is supposed to be when the Spirit takes control of you and makes you dance, or something like that. It’s an individual thing that one person does. There were some people against people choosing to dance and some people against choreographed dancing.

    The Psalms tell the people to dance. The implication is that the listener would hear and make the choice to do so. I can’t find an example in the BIble where someone is overtaken by an ecstacy and made to dance, not a clear one, at least.

    As far as miracles go, I’ve seen healing in churches that sang modern praise choruses, mostly pretty ‘tame’. I even visited a small megachurch that had black lights and rock/pop band sounding that laid hands on someone and got a report back that the child they were praying for had a clean bill of health. That was technically a Baptist church. I don’t know that I’ve seen healing in a COG. I’ve witnessed prophetic words in a COG, also PH, and churches Wagoner would call ‘Third Wave’.

    In the early 1990’s, pre-Toronto Blessing, when I spent some time around Vineyard people, I wondered why I hadn’t seen so much of these gifts in the Pentecostal environment I was raised in. I had grown up hearing prophecies and tongues and interpretation. But, usually, there was one person, maybe two, who would operate in these gifts in the congregation. What I was seeing was that a number of people could operate in revelatory gifts in one-on-one settings to minister to people. I I started to flow in a little bit of that sort of thing myself. I wondered if denominations and movements tended to lose their fire and be less likely to pursue God in the area of spiritual gifts. God is no respecter of persons, of course. But us people can be a problem.

    I don’t think doing miracles has anything to do with being Old Timey. The problem could be a lack of prayer. It could also be related to holiness as well.

  • Reply July 9, 2016

    Charles Page

    Here is good COG worship!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaaLww5UutM

  • Troy Day
    Reply October 17, 2019

    Troy Day

    yes I was Joe Absher

    • Joe Absher
      Reply October 17, 2019

      Joe Absher

      ..looking for a verse 🔥

    • Troy Day
      Reply October 17, 2019

      Troy Day

      for the devil went to GA but didnt stick around?

    • Joe Absher
      Reply October 17, 2019

      Joe Absher

      The one were they asked
      “Where is the gate to the city?”

  • RichardAnna Boyce
    Reply October 17, 2019

    RichardAnna Boyce

    surely the original Pentecost was all Jewish?

    • Troy Day
      Reply October 18, 2019

      Troy Day

      12 or 120? – you struggle with Acts 2 a lot

    • RichardAnna Boyce
      Reply October 20, 2019

      RichardAnna Boyce

      120

    • Troy Day
      Reply October 20, 2019

      Troy Day

      RichardAnna Boyce says WHO

    • RichardAnna Boyce
      Reply October 20, 2019

      RichardAnna Boyce

      Acts 1:2-14
      This first account followed Jesus until the day He returned to heaven. The Holy Spirit provides continuity between the ministry of Jesus and the future mission of the apostles whom He had chosen (cf. v 8).
      1:3. The Lord Jesus presented Himself alive to the primary witnesses (cf. 13:30-31) to His resurrection after His sufferings—humiliating maltreatment and death by crucifixion. The many infallible proofs Jesus offered in His appearances to them throughout forty days unequivocally confirmed His resurrection. The content of Jesus’ teaching—the things pertaining to the kingdom of God—shows the continued viability of the messianic kingdom promised to Israel (cf. vv 6-7).
      1:4. The verb assembled together perhaps reflects a nighttime stay with the disciples on the Mount of Olives (see v 12; Luke 22:39). Both the significance of Jerusalem as the capital city (cf. Isa 24:23; 33:17-22; 52:1-12; 62:1-7; Joel 3:16-17; Mic 4:1-8; Zech 8:1-8; 9:9) and the association of the Holy Spirit with the messianic kingdom (cf. Ezek 36:24-30) may explain the command not to depart from Jerusalem (the principal city of Judea). Despite Jesus’ recent crucifixion and the patent animosity of the religious leaders the disciples needed to stay together and wait for the Promise of the Father.
      1:5. The Lord Jesus contrasted two significant and yet unequal baptisms. John’s anticipatory baptism “with water” testified to the participant’s desire for fellowship with God with a view to the nation welcoming the Messiah. The greater baptism “with the Holy Spirit” would spiritually join believers in Jesus, the Messiah to Him (and to each other). It would also initiate the indwelling, empowering, gifting, and sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit for the Church (cf. Rom 8; 1 Cor 12; Eph 1:13-14; 4:30).
      1:6. On the occasion of His ascension (see v. 9), when they had come together the Eleven inquired, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” Their question both affirms and summarizes the essential teaching on the kingdom: The Lord Jesus would in the future establish an earthly kingdom centered in Israel.
      1:7. God the Father—in His administrative function as the Planner in the Triune God—sets the times and seasons for the future establishment of the kingdom in Israel. Both lay under God’s sovereign control.
      1:8. Jesus promised that their power would come from “the Holy Spirit”—the third Person in the holy Trinity. He would enable them to serve as witnesses. Narratively “the end of the earth” is considered as Rome in the literary plan of the book. From Rome one could reach all the known nations of the time. Most importantly, the presence of the Holy Spirit would henceforth inform the life and decisions of both the Church and the witnesses.
      1:9. The departure of the Lord took place once He had fully prepared His disciples for both His physical absence and their future ministry. The passage bears various thematic connections to the OT departure of God’s glory from Jerusalem (see Ezek 8-11) with a view to a future return (cf. Ezek 43).
      1:10. The twelve looked steadfastly toward heaven as the Lord Jesus ascended. Then two men appeared alongside the Twelve both dressed in white apparel. Their joint testimony serves to confirm the veracity of their words.
      1:11. The two men assured the disciples, “men of Galilee,” that they would see the Lord again. They need not “stand gazing up into heaven.” In fact, they had just witnessed a limited preview of the manner of His return. Jesus would come back the way they “saw Him go into heaven”—visibly and bodily.
      1:12. The disciples returned to Jerusalem (cf. Acts 12:25, MT). Luke specifies that they traveled a Sabbath day’s journey—the half-mile distance permitted by the religious leaders for travel on Saturday. In the future the Lord Jesus will journey from the Mount of Olives to Jerusalem to reign and thus initiate the one-thousand-year Sabbath rest for the nation (cf. Heb 4:1-11; Acts 3:17-23).
      1:13. Luke records that when they had entered, they went up into the upper room (cf. 9:37,39; 20:8) where they were staying. The list of disciples purposefully omits the betrayer, Judas Iscariot.
      1:14. The Eleven continued with one accord in prayer and supplication along with the women (cf. 24:22), Mary His mother, and His brothers who had not always believed in Him (cf. John 7:1-5).

    • RichardAnna Boyce
      Reply October 20, 2019

      RichardAnna Boyce

      Acts 2:5. On that unique Day of Pentecost there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews. Their provenance from every nation under heaven indicates the presence of Judaism beyond the limits of Palestine throughout the Roman Empire. The opportunity to reach every nation under heaven from Jerusalem potentially placed the fulfillment of the messianic promise within reach. A Jewish welcome for Messiah—on an international scale—could bring the establishment of the promised kingdom. All the essential elements appear—Jerusalem, the capital, the potential belief of the nation in Jesus the Messiah, and the Twelve, the rulers (under Messiah) of the regathered nation (cf. Luke 22:24-30).

    • RichardAnna Boyce
      Reply October 20, 2019

      RichardAnna Boyce

      Acts 2:7–11
      As prevalent and characteristic in the Lucan writings they were all amazed (Acts 2:12,47; 8:13; 9:21; 10:45; 12:16; 24:22). Their amazement intensified once they perceived the fluency of these Galileans in their own languages.

      2:8. The emphasis on each individual dialect highlights the miracle of the perfect utterance in each respective native language despite the clear Galilean provenance of all who spoke. This does not necessarily picture a reversal of Babel because diverse nations will still exist in the future millennial and eternal kingdoms (cf. Rev 20:8; 22:2). Rather, it expresses the desire of God to reach everyone and His divine enablement for the international endeavor expressed in Acts 1:8.

      2:9-11. Luke enumerates the representative Jewish people (AND PROSELYTES present. The multinational multitude said, “we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” The tongues spoken here were actual dialects recognizable in the Roman Empire of the first century. Furthermore the ability did not involve prophetic or revelatory speech but rather the Spirit-enabled expression of God’s greatness and deeds.

    • RichardAnna Boyce
      Reply October 20, 2019

      RichardAnna Boyce

      Acts 2:16-17
      Peter appealed to the OT, affirming, “this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel.”

      The original OT prophecy describes eschatological or last days realities for Israel. The outpouring of the Spirit only on Israelites at Pentecost validated that they now lived in an eschatological era of fulfillment—an era already begun during the ministry of John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus. Most importantly the advent of the Spirit evidences the return of Jesus to the privileged right hand of the Father in heaven.

      2:17. Joel’s prophecy would see its realization “‘in the last days’”—the period initiated by the arrival of John the Baptist and visitation of Jesus the Messiah (Matt 3; 17:10-13; Mark 1:1-15; 1 Cor 10:11; 1 Tim 4:1-5; 2 Tim 3:1-9; Heb 1:1-4; 9:26; James 4:8; 1 Peter 1:20; 1 John 4:1-4). God the Father promised, “‘I will pour out of My Spirit’”—the Holy Spirit who corresponded to His own nature as deity and thus enjoyed the same eternality, power, and character/attributes. And He would do so “‘on all flesh’” in contradistinction to the OT where the Spirit empowered only kings, prophets, priests, and other select servants (cf. Gen 41:37-45; Ex 31:1-11; Num 11:16-30; Judg 3:9-11; 6:34; 11:29; 14:5-6,19; 15:14-20; 1 Sam 16:1-13; Dan 5:10-21; Mic 3:5-8). Now God’s special enablement for ministry would extend to all believers regardless of social status, age, or gender. Israel’s “‘sons and…daughters would prophesy’”—speak perfectly accurate predictive messages from God (cf. Deut 13:1-5; 18:9-22). Additionally Israel’s “‘young men would see visions and old men would dream dreams.’”

    • RichardAnna Boyce
      Reply October 20, 2019

      RichardAnna Boyce

      Acts 2:23
      Historically, however, they—without coercion and of their own accord—carried out the whole sequence of murderous violence against the Messiah. Peter offers a threefold accusation—“you have taken Him by lawless hands, have crucified Him, and put Him to death.” They ironically did this with lawless hands despite the prevalent emphasis on the Law and legalistic additions to it.

    • RichardAnna Boyce
      Reply October 20, 2019

      RichardAnna Boyce

      Acts 2:37-3:1
      Lord and Christ, the last words the audience hears applied to Jesus, finally awaken them to the truth of His identity as the Messiah. Luke records that they were cut to the heart—a reaction that underscores their utmost conviction regarding Jesus as Messiah and their role in His death. Their sensitized conscience (borne from the conviction that they had crucified the Savior) leads to a question that reveals their belief in Jesus. They asked “Men and brethen, what shall we do?” Their question and Peter’s answer indicate that they had believed in Jesus.
      Peter did not speak to an uninformed multitude. They knew both the Scriptures and the miraculous ministry of Jesus (cf. v 22). The apostle Peter presented a case for Jesus as Messiah from the OT that they could both follow and correlate with contemporary events and past Jewish history. By the time Peter had clarified the truth of Jesus’ resurrection and ascension and they had correlated it with the events at Pentecost (cf. vv 29-35), everything fell into place. They unequivocally identified Jesus as the Messiah—and so believed in Him. Now they wanted to know what to do to reestablish fellowship with Him.
      2:38. Repentance provided the answer to their dilemma. They needed to reestablish their relationship with the Messiah they had just believed in. Peter does not here require additional conditions for eternal life. Belief in Jesus counts as the singular condition for guaranteed eternal life in both the OT and the NT. Apparently in the case of those who had had the privilege of seeing Jesus’ earthly ministry (cf. v 22), and yet disbelieved both Him and John (cf. Luke 7:31-35), God required a public identification with Jesus by baptism (and a corresponding rescinding of participation in the sin of that generation). Much like the way God requires confession of sins in order for Christians to maintain and enjoy fellowship with Him, in these unique cases God required repentance and baptism for the initiation of the Christian life.
      The Gentile Cornelius and those in his household who believed received the Holy Spirit before their baptism (10:43-48; 11:15-18). Palestinian Jews, however, believed in Jesus and received eternal life before receiving the Holy Spirit (2:37-39). The initial Samaritans who believed—after the Crucifixion—also received the Holy Spirit after their baptism as well as the laying on of hands by the apostles Peter and John (cf. 8:14-17). Repentance, although required for fellowship, did not constitute a condition for eternal life, since Peter recommended it to believers in Jesus already. Likewise, baptism was not a condition for eternal life.
      Jesus had likened His own baptism to the death He would suffer (cf. Luke 12:50). Furthermore, the Holy Spirit came upon Him at His baptism (cf. Luke 3:21-22). Now those of that generation who condemned Him would publicly associate themselves with Him and receive the Holy Spirit by whom they would join other believers in the Body of Christ. They did not recant their Jewishness, but rather their role in the crucifixion of the Messiah. Furthermore these conditions do not hold today, since no one of that particular generation remains.

    • RichardAnna Boyce
      Reply October 20, 2019

      RichardAnna Boyce

      2:39. “The promise” of the Spirit naturally applied to them as the covenant nation (cf. Isa 32:9-20; 44:1-5; Ezek 39:25-29; Zech 12:8-10), while the phrase “to all who are afar off” seemingly refers to Gentiles. However, the Acts 10 narrative demonstrates unequivocally how far indeed the Gentiles stood in the apostle’s mind. From Peter’s perspective it probably refers to Jews scattered in other parts of the empire. Nevertheless geography did not constitute the main issue but rather God’s drawing of people to Himself—“as many as the Lord our God will call.”
      2:40. Peter urged them, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” The Lord Jesus had already characterized the contemporary nation as wayward (cf. Luke 9:41; 13:34-35). Wrath would fall on Israel during the Jewish War of AD 66-70 which would climax in the destruction of the Holy City and the temple. Whereas once they had approved of Jesus’ death by crucifixion, now they would publicly align themselves—by water baptism—with the very Messiah they had rejected before. They would not repudiate their Jewishness but rather would recant their previous stance against Jesus (shared especially by the nation’s religious leaders).
      2:41. This verse confirms the above interpretation. The qualification those who gladly received his word rules out infant baptism. Infants, if present, would not have the ability to reason and respond to Peter’s persuasive message. Nor would infants qualify as men of Israel (v 22) and men and brethren (v 29). Luke reports that that day about three thousand souls were added to them (i.e., to the approximately 120 disciples who had obediently awaited the advent of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost; cf. 1:15). The adding encompassed more than the simple numeric addition. It entailed their incorporation into the body of Christ (cf. 1 Cor 12:12-13) and the ensuing spiritual bond or unity effected by the Holy Spirit (cf. Eph 4:1-6). They had received eternal life only by believing in Jesus as Savior. They then restored their fellowship with God by a public identification with Jesus by water baptism. Now, they enjoyed communion with the Church—still essentially Jewish at this point in its history.
      2:42. Luke here records four facets of the life of the early church: the apostles’ doctrine (the authoritative teaching conveyed by the Lord Jesus, confirmed by the wonder-working ability granted to them by the Father, and superintended by the Holy Spirit); fellowship (the uncoerced communal sharing of material possessions and the disposition that undergirded it); the breaking of bread (cf. Luke 22:19; 24:30; Acts 2:46; 20:7; 11; 27:35), which references the Lord’s Supper and potentially other meals enjoyed in communion with each other (see Acts 27:35 for a potential exception); and prayers (petitions to the Father in line with the Lord’s teaching (cf. Luke 11:1-13; 18:1-8) and OT prayer customs still associated with the temple (cf. Luke 24:50-53; Acts 3:1). The exemplary picture of the early church portrays the ideal interadvent interaction for the Church as well as kingdom values for Israel—if they would choose to believe in Jesus and repent on a national scale.
      2:43. These new believers had now taken a stand apart from the nation and associated themselves publicly with the Savior. As a consequence of their sanctified community life fear came upon every soul—a healthy recognition of God’s working in their midst. In a perfect complement wonders and signs done by the apostles served as God’s continued imprimatur on the Church. The miracles identified them with the Lord Jesus Christ—especially with His compassion, authority, and power. The continued enablement given to them by God also showed His favor and approval of their ministry and message.
      2:44. A new community of believers had now been unified around the Lord Jesus and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and were freely sharing their material possessions.
      2:45. The community of the believers did not force each other through innuendo or guilt provoking manipulation. Freely and without abusive pressure they sold their possessions (a reference to land real estate) and goods (possessions in general, in the NT only here and Heb 10:34), and divided them among all, as anyone had need. Circumstantial necessity called forth heartfelt compassion from those who belonged to Christ and had learned from Him.
      2:46. At this point they still congregated daily with one accord in the temple—a gathering that permitted a public testimony to those in Jerusalem. In addition they participated in breaking bread from house to house (cf. 5:42)—partaking in the intimate communion that focused on the Lord Jesus, His death, and His return to once again partake with them (cf. Luke 22:14-20). Thus the Supper entailed both reminiscence and anticipation of Jesus all in the contexts of sharing with and loving each other.
      2:47. They praised God and experienced favor with all the people (mirroring the Savior’s own early life as recorded in Luke 2:40,52). In this context Luke gives his first progress report: the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. As a transitional conclusion to this unit (1-2) and introduction to the next (3:1-6:7) it validates the Church and the apostles as the agents God now worked with vis-à-vis the religious leaders in Jerusalem. Thus the early Jewish believers in Jesus departed from the misguided religion of their day, worshiped God in the same temple, and experienced sincere fellowship with God and with each other. Thus far the early church enjoyed a thoroughly positive experience.
      II. God Establishes the Twelve Witnesses in Jerusalem (3:1-6:7)
      A. Peter Offers Messianic Salvation to the Nation (3:1-26)
      3:1. Luke moves the narrative to another day and highlights two of the apostles—Peter and John. (See their history together at Luke 5:8-10; 6:14; 9:28; 22:8.) The move to the temple area places the apostles in contrast to the contemporary leadership and bring into high relief which group the risen and seated Messiah works through. Jesus’ offer of the kingdom highlights the unbelief of the religious authorities who guide the nation—and a principal reason why the kingdom did not come.

  • Joe Absher
    Reply October 20, 2019

    Joe Absher

    2 Corinthians 11:4 KJV — For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive ANOTHER SPIRIT which ye have not received, or ANOTHER GOSPEL which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

  • Joe Absher
    Reply October 21, 2019

    Joe Absher

    Isn’t it a kind of deception to blow through a bunch of material and not post sources. It’s fraud as usual and typical of the boy girl

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