video March 21, 2016 Can a christian have a devil or demon? Posted by in Facebook's Pentecostal Theology Group View the Original Post Can a christian have a devil or demon? christiandemondevil Previous articleSarum Theological Lectures 2011 with Tom Wright – part 8 Next articleIMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS is righteousness that comes from CHRIST alone 135 Comments Reply March 26, 2018 Troy Day Ricky Grimsley Dake explains it great He’s a got a great way to explain the Bible Reply March 26, 2018 Scott Phillips Can someone call themselves a christian and worship the devil? Calling yourself a Californian, does not a californian make. I believe we have stretched the meaning of definition of Christians. The scripture said, “THEY WERE Called Christians…” They did not call themselves christians. Sadly, many today claim a designation that their lives, language, lifestyle or values could not be found guilty of such a charge. Reply March 26, 2018 Leon Bible Sarcasm alert! Well men say they are women and get to go to the women’s bathroom. Reply March 26, 2018 Scott Phillips Do you believe in Jesus and can you sing amazing Grace? We are good. Don’t worry about any scriptures that clash with your opinions or your denominational tradition. Reply March 26, 2018 Leon Bible Scott Phillips Yes that is what they teach…. Creflo Dollar, Joseph Prince and Jimmy Swaggart all teaching the hyper-grace message! Reply March 26, 2018 Scott Phillips Leon Bible , it’s deception and a doctrine from hell. However, this hyper grace is mainstream today. It’s the message most of our denominations are effected by. Reply March 27, 2018 Jerome Herrick Weymouth Leon Bible You are full of hypocritical judgment! And you don’t know hay from straw. Jimmy Swaggert don’t teach hyper-grace! Reply March 27, 2018 Leon Bible Jerome Herrick Weymouth Here Donnie says a sinner can commit adultery and NOT repent and still go to Heaven. Why he says? “It is justification by faith.” Hear it here: https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/audio/donnie-swaggart-license-for-immorality.mp3 Reply March 27, 2018 Scott Phillips that is a pile of demonic deception right there. Reply March 27, 2018 Scott Phillips Of course some believe if you BELIEVE ONCE… you are always justified forever. However, we know better. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Faith is a continuation, enduring, pressing. Reply March 27, 2018 Jerome Herrick Weymouth Watch Bro. Swaggert for years.. He’s sound and preaching the words of Christ…and no not going to watch something that been altered so that haters use to condemn those who don’t believe like they do. Reply March 27, 2018 Scott Phillips That seed of calvinism is infecting Pentecostalism. Hep us Lord. Reply March 27, 2018 Jerome Herrick Weymouth Wow Scott calling himself a Calvinist!!! Reply March 27, 2018 Scott Phillips Swaggart is a fine example of someone whose public rhetoric changed to matched his weak morality. Gifted, yes. Deceived none the less. Reply March 27, 2018 Scott Phillips I am an Anti- Calvinst. Reply March 27, 2018 Jerome Herrick Weymouth So am i Reply March 27, 2018 Scott Phillips Very common for those whose lives are exposed to be hypocrisy … they began to teach / preach a hyper grace to excuse their excess. Reply March 27, 2018 Jerome Herrick Weymouth Trinitarian and full gospel!!! Reply March 27, 2018 Jerome Herrick Weymouth Good day for a fight on FB!!! Reply March 27, 2018 Jerome Herrick Weymouth And I still watch Jimmy Swaggert and videos on YouTube of R.W. Shambuck!!! Reply March 27, 2018 Leon Bible Jerome Herrick Weymouth Swaggart tried to take the “message of the cross” from Watchman Nee and use as an excuse for his sin. You see the deal was Swaggart had sinned. THREE times in as many years… So after crying and saying he was sorry how was he now going to get people to believe him? Enter the “message of the cross.” Swaggart claimed a NEW revelation that nobody had since the days of the Apostle Paul. This new found message of the cross would allow him to say that he never “backslid” and that God was getting him ready to receive “message of the cross.” With this new found message of the cross you can sin all you want to and still go to Heaven. Just as Donnie said… commit adultery and don’t repent… no problem you still get to go to Heaven. For them the same would have been true for brother Swaggart. It is nothing more than the ole time Baptist “once saved always saved.” It is the same thing churches across the land are preaching when they say that the running a red light is the same as committing adultery. we all do it – they say. For the modern church there is no sin that will take you to Hell. And for Swaggart there is NO Death penalty sin. No Sin can keep you out of Heaven they tell us… only the sin of rejecting Jesus. So according to them commit adultery all you want – just don’t reject Jesus! Hogwash! Reply March 27, 2018 Jerome Herrick Weymouth You Swaggert haters are the same ones who run down every Pentecostal preacher from Azusa St. to now. So when you haters start your hating. I write you off. Your just like those tankers who think the water in the baptismal tank washes away your sins.!!! Reply March 27, 2018 Leon Bible Jerome Herrick Weymouth I don’t hate Swaggart – I watch him on TV often. Just like I do others. AND by the way you are NOT Christian by the Grace of God! You are Christian because you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord! Now that option was available to you because of God’s grace, BUT you had to DO SOMETHING to receive it. Reply March 27, 2018 Jerome Herrick Weymouth That something is believing and receiving Jesus Christ into your life. It is an act of your own free will and not by so called irresistible grace. Reply March 26, 2018 Scott Phillips The Bible says, “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If you love the World, the love of the father is not in you.” Oh, but can that scripture be true? Does it really mean that you got to REALLY NOT love the World? IT can’t mean that, “Because we believe we are saved by faith alone.” Throw away the whole Bible, New Testament epistles that speak to the many things one must do to be accepted, obedient, godly and faithful… As long as you profess with your mouth, you can be anything, say anything do anything, wear anything go anywhere…. Do you believe in Jesus? NO problem. We believe we are saved by faith alone. Reply March 26, 2018 Troy Day Scott Phillips These are major questions on delivery ministry today. I will repost what Paul L. King to help with some answers ILLOGICAL SYLLOGISTIC REASONING Major Premise: Every Christian is indwelt by the Holy Spirit Minor Premise: The Holy Spirit cannot dwell with demons. Conclusion: Christians cannot have demons. Major Premise: Every Christian is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Minor Premise: The Holy Spirit cannot dwell with sin. Conclusion: Christians cannot sin Evidence of Demon Involvement: • Had a spirit of sickness (weakness—Gr.—asthenia)—v. 11 • Was bound by Satan—v. 16 • Was proclaimed freed—v. 12, 16 But Not Full Demonic Control: • Daimonion not used • The spirit is not called an “unclean” or “evil” spirit • It is called a healing—v. 14, distinguished from casting out demons • Jesus laid hands on her—v. 13—which He did not do in exorcisms • There was no violent manifestation or conversation with a demon • Jesus does not say, “Come out,” or “Be gone” Observations: • A person may “have a spirit” without the spirit indwelling and needing to be cast out. • A person may “have a spirit” that needs to be cast out. • Thus, there are differing levels of “having a spirit” and differing deliverance methodologies for differing levels of demonic involvement. Reply March 26, 2018 Paul L. King Thank you for reposting and aligning my earlier post material. The second half beginning with “Evidence of Demonic Involvement” are notes on Luke 13. Reply March 26, 2018 Scott Phillips What fellowship hath Christ with Devils? Can christians be oppressed, harrassed, under attack of the Devil? What is the line between opression and possession? I know from experience one can be under a heavy attack of the enemy. For a long time. I have known people who for a season felt like they were losing their minds. My general feel is, sometimes you have to outlast the enemy in the struggle. Reply March 26, 2018 Paul L. King First of all, a Christian cannot be possessed (I.e., owned) by a demon. Oppression can usually be dealt with through binding and loosing without casting out, although severe oppression may require it. If it is at the level of an obsession/compulsion, it probably needs casting out (but not all OCD people have demons to be cast out. The final level of demonic control needs casting out. Reply March 26, 2018 Troy Day There is a difference between a demonic attack and demonization Reply March 26, 2018 Robert Borders The first time that I encountered a person openly manifesting a demonic presence was in a church service in a small COG in Indiana. I was 20 years old at the time and had never seen such a thing before. I didn’t know what to do except hold on to the teenage girl and pray while she was hissing like a snake and threatening to kill me. I knew the girl to be a Christian. God had mercy on us and the girl was set free that night! Reply March 26, 2018 Troy Day was she water baptized ? Reply March 26, 2018 Robert Borders Her church did not have a baptistry and I do not know if she had been baptized. I did see her praying at the altar. Her life and school performance greatly improved after being set free. My life was changed that night as well. Reply March 26, 2018 Troy Day Thank God Reply March 26, 2018 Paul L. King Certainly, if we see clear demonic manifestation, we cast it out. The problem is that some people are claiming something is demonic when it is not or is at a level of influence in which casting out is not the issue and is not of benefit. As Derek Prince once said, “You can’t cast out the flesh and you can’t crucify a demon.” Discernment is needed to know which is which. Reply March 26, 2018 Joseph D. Absher God help us Reply March 26, 2018 Troy Day How do you feel about the interpretation Dake gives on this portion of the Bible? Reply March 26, 2018 Melvin Shomo Is dementia of the devil? Do certain Christians get old timers? What did King Nebuchadnezzar have when his mind went from him, could it of been a form of Dementia? Someone that has old timers you might find outside eating grass Reply March 26, 2018 Robert Borders but they don’t grow feathers Reply March 26, 2018 Troy Day William DeArteaga has done some study in the area and in some cases they could be related Reply March 26, 2018 William DeArteaga Most dementia is not demonic, but as we learn more about the healing ministty, we my be able to pray moreeffecive for it. Reply March 26, 2018 Paul L. King William DeArteaga, I agree. Most dementia is the effects of a body and mind in a state of dying and shut down. My father had dementia for 2 years before he passed away last June. But his dementia itself was not demonically caused, although sometimes it was demonically aggravated. Singing hymns was effective for my father . Reply March 27, 2018 William DeArteaga Paul L. King Very interesting. I noticed in my years of nursing home ministry that people with dementia came alive when we sang some old hymn, such as “The Old Rugged Cross’ Reply March 27, 2018 Melvin Shomo William If we as Christians could learn how to bring the authority given to us by Christ we would see more people delivered. The hymns brought forth life. We as Christians have to learn to give people life. Reply March 27, 2018 Louise Cummings He wasn’t a Christian. He didn’t even believe in God. Reply March 27, 2018 Louise Cummings I was talking about Nebuchadnezzar Reply March 27, 2018 Paul L. King I have been involved in deliverance ministry since 1971 when as a youth pastor my C&MA pastor mentored me in it. I have sat under the teachings of many deliverance ministries through the years–Derek Prince, Don Basham, Lester Sumrall, John Wimber, Francis MacNutt, Oral Roberts, Randy Clark, missiologist Ed Murphy, Neil T. Anderson, among others, and in my own C&MA denomination Dr. Keith Bailey and Dr. K Neill Foster (with whom I co-authored a book on Binding and Loosing). I did my first doctoral dissertation on spiritual warfare pioneer & missionary John MacMillan, who wrote the original book The Authority of the Believer, from which Kenneth Hagin and others got their teaching. Through the decades I have seen (and done) the good, the bad, and the ugly in deliverance. So much unsound teaching and practice in both ditches, so much balance, wisdom and discernment is needed. Early on I got hold of the book “Pigs in the Parlor” by Frank and Ida Mae Hammond, which basically says all mental illness is demonic, and has very elaborate teaching and diagrams, etc. I swallowed the whole teaching “whole hog” (bad pun intended). My mother was paranoid schizophrenic, so I tried to cast demons out of her using Hammond’s method. It was a disaster! No demons manifested. If my mother was not paranoid before, she was after I got done with her. And it sure did not help our relationship. I came to realize that there were no demons to cast out of my mother. She had a chemical imbalance, and there was some history of mental illness in her side of the family so some generational bondage to be freed from, but no demons to cast out. I also realized that demons would take advantage of her physical and emotional weakness and vulnerability, so at times I was able to bind demons harassing her and to loose her effectively for periods of time (sometimes she would go 3-4 years without an episode or medication), but no demons to cast out. She was a believer and loved Jesus, and prayed me back from a period of rebellion as a teenager. Reply March 27, 2018 Troy Day http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/paul-king-john-a-macmillans-teaching-regarding-the-authority-of-the-believer-and-its-impact-on-the-evangelical-pentecostal-and-charismatic-movements/ Reply March 27, 2018 Melvin Shomo Paul can we assume since the disorder was in the family roots somewhere,, could it not be a generational curse. Even a chemical imbalance can be considered from the enemy of our soul. Because sin is what brought sicknesses and diseases into this world. My sister had the book Pigs in the Parlor. I didn’t care for the book. Dementia along with Alzheimer’s is definitely not of God. And they are losing their mental state of mind. We are not the healer, Christ is. We are just an extension of his hand. Reply March 27, 2018 Paul L. King Melvin Shomo Yes, I agree. I prefer not to use the term “generational curse” often, because some things can be generational, but not a curse from the iniquities of the forefathers per se, but more the results of of the general bondage of sinfulness of humankind (Romans 8:19-22). I prefer to use terms like “generational bondage” or “generational vulnerability,” or A.B. Simpson’s terminology of “hereditary cloud” long before the current language was used. I frequently command chemical imbalances of the body to come back into balance and proper alignment–all deficiencies to be brought up to normal, all excesses to be brought down to normal. Reply March 27, 2018 Paul L. King With mentally handicapped persons, I don’t necessarily think that a generational curse is at work, although it certainly could be in some cases, but more for other reasons. At the same time, while their minds may be handicapped, their spirits are not. I have led worship services in homes for the mentally handicapped, and many of them in their own child-like way love Jesus. They love to sing the old hymns. The Holy Spirit and their human spirit commune, bypassing the mind. In the church I pastor, there is a man in his 30s, but with the mentality of a child, but he really loves Jesus, watches the news, and asks our church to pray for the weekly tragedies. He is big, much bigger than me, and he gives me a big bear hug after service and lifts me off my feet. Reply March 27, 2018 Paul L. King Others overcome their physical and mental disabilities and receive a great degree of healing even if not total. A good friend of mine was born with cerebral palsy. He has somewhat slurred speech and is confined to a wheel chair. He was not supposed to live to be 2 years old, and if he did, he was supposed to be a vegetable. He survived and not only completed elementary school, and high school but also college, grad school, and recently a doctorate, and has presented papers at the Society for Pentecostal Studies academic conference. And he is married. Some word of faith people said he didn’t have enough faith for healing. I tell you, he is a man of faith and courage! Some people look at the cup half empty; he looks at it half full. The fact is, from the way he was and was predicted to be the rest of his life, he is 80% healed! Reply March 27, 2018 Melvin Shomo Paul L. King there is a group that I have joined on here called Heart of Miracles Reign in Life. They are actually talking about this on there, and they seem to agree with you. You might want to check this group out. Nice talking with you Sir Reply March 27, 2018 Louise Cummings I wasn’t thinking of Dementia about Nebuchadnezzar when I said what I said about him. I thought you was asking about demon Possession. What he had , I believe was given to him from the Lord. I don’t know what you would call that. For a certain time I believe it came on him because of rebellion and unbelief. It could hav been some kind of possession. But when his time was up. He came back to his right mind. Reply March 27, 2018 Louise Cummings Paul L. King thank God. If it’s who it is that I’m thinking about. I don’t believe the devil had on part in it. He parents could have smoked or something like that. But I wouldn’t dare say that either. Only the Lord Knows things like that. There was a question ask in the Bible. This man or his parents or him. Jesus said neither. But that they could see the Glory. I don’t think that’s our call to say who is the cause.The Bible says it rains on the Just and the unjust. This man I’m talking about. I believe is s great man of God. Reply March 27, 2018 Melvin Shomo I believe Nebuchadnezzar was taken over by demons because of his rebellion. But even when our minds go from us we can think normal within. When Nebuchadnezzar came to himself he than acknowledged the God of Israel. And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation: Reply March 27, 2018 Melvin Shomo Can you imagine how the Babylonians turned their backs on Nebuchadnezzar and had left him roam in the Fields. That is crazy Reply March 27, 2018 Louise Cummings Melvin Shomo Amen. I agree. Completely. Reply March 27, 2018 Link Hudson If someone gets dogmatic about this, he can end up judging other people’s salvation. Reply March 27, 2018 Louise Cummings No. The devil can oppress you. The Bible said resist him and he wold flee. The Bible also said bitter water and sweet water, cannot come from the same fountain. Reply March 27, 2018 Troy Day So William DeArteaga Paul L. King could king Saul be diagnosed with dementia? 🙂 Reply March 27, 2018 William DeArteaga No. plainly demonic, but maybe complicated with dementia. Reply March 27, 2018 Robert Borders William DeArteaga or temporary delerium Reply March 27, 2018 Troy Day Well he did know who David was before the battle and then after the battle asked who David was 🙂 Reply March 27, 2018 Louise Cummings I would say no. The Bible said an evil spirit from the Lord came upon him. Until little David played the Harp. And it would drive the evil spirit away. That’s what we need in our world and our Churches. Is get to playing some good old gospel song. And singing some good old or new Spirit Filled gospel singing and drive the Of devil out of our services. And then see us give all of us to God, and see souls saved and filled with the Sweet Holy Ghost. Reply March 27, 2018 Jerome Herrick Weymouth Some things are of sin…let’s go to slaves and masters…Paul said ” to whom you submit to… you become its slave… Whether sin or righteousness…I see a lot of men and women that are bound in sinful lifestyles…a stronghold upon a mind. Which has to be pulled down. Remember that we are to loose, undo, and break every yoke. Sometimes it’s a demonic manifestation or times it just plan old rebellion. Reply March 27, 2018 Scott Phillips No demonic possession needed if we believe doctrines of demons. Reply March 27, 2018 Troy Day Melvin Shomo How would you approach a demonized person in church who starts screaming or charging you at the altar ? Reply March 27, 2018 Paul L. King This happened to Paul Radar, pastor of Moody Church, who became President of the Alliance after A.B. Simpson passed away. A man came down the aisle barking like a dog. He immediately cast the demon out and when on with his sermon. Reply March 27, 2018 Melvin Shomo I believe that I would do exactly what Paul has mentioned here. There is a video on YouTube where a person enters the church with a gun to shoot the Pastor. The Pastor rebukes him in the name of Jesus. I believe that the video is legit Reply March 27, 2018 Troy Day yap Paul L. King been there – indian chiefs coming to service all high from lodge all high charging the pulpit It was either that or put few of them in the hospital Joseph D. Absher knows Reply March 27, 2018 Joseph D. Absher The worst ones hide behind the pulpit. Reply January 29, 2019 Troy Day YES? Isara Mo Reply February 7, 2019 Gary Micheal Epping Are you talking about somebody on here? Reply February 7, 2019 Troy Day do tell if you have a word of discernment Reply January 29, 2019 Joshua Wheeler It may be an unpopular opinion but yes they can. I’m not claim full on possession but oppression. Reply January 29, 2019 Troy Day give us the exegesis on possession VS oppression Robert Franzen Reply January 29, 2019 Robert Franzen Troy Day oh, I see; if ya start loosing ground in one debate start throwing a hundred others to distract – Let’s finish one thing at a time Fun subject tho;) Reply January 29, 2019 Troy Day I think I gave you half of dozen chances on the Gap and you have fallen through its cracks 🙂 Reply January 29, 2019 Robert Franzen Troy Day you won’t respond or follow me in my exegesis – watch: Have we established a very important vital interpreting principle that we MUST go to the original language & not the modern translations: Have we established that the word replenish simply means “to fill?” If we have, let’s go to verse 2. Reply February 6, 2019 Gary Micheal Epping Robert Franzen What? “Have we established a very important vital interpreting principle that we MUST go to the original language & not the modern translations.” Why even have a modern translation when we have you to tell us? Reply January 29, 2019 Nora Neel-Toney No they cannot. They can be oppressed but not possessed Reply January 29, 2019 Troy Day where do we find this difference in the actual BIBLE? Reply January 29, 2019 Nora Neel-Toney I’ll have to find it Reply January 29, 2019 Soussi Soussi There are no demons or devils! All imagination and can be traced in the evolution of humans from myths to religions.. Reply January 29, 2019 Nora Neel-Toney Soussi Soussi there are demons. I’ve witnessed people who were demon possessed. Satan (devil) is as real as you are and is in many forms. He mostly represents himself as pleasures that are sinful. Reply January 29, 2019 Joseph Walker Soussi Soussi a Christian can have anything they want Reply January 29, 2019 Soussi Soussi They is not a possessed person! A mentally ill/disturbed person suffering mental issues. I deal with them on a daily basis. In the past, they had no neuroscience! So they attributed the brain chemical imbalance to demons! They couldn’t see the microbes in the past! No microscopes! They had to blame evil .. now, we know. Knowledge is power. See reality. Don’t create ur own and get disconnected from society. Reply January 29, 2019 Troy Day Peter Vandever Terry Wiles The Deliverance Manual: Brownsville Assembly of God https://www.amazon.com/Deliverance-Manual-Brownsville-Assembly-God/dp/B003TMPWOU?fbclid=IwAR0-Z8QOXlcXoEizkjCh3-VytsgyD3075rD1JKAqtDeLqbjzARJDJsZs9A8 Reply January 29, 2019 Nora Neel-Toney Troy the Lord and the Holy Spirit does not abide in the same house as demons. Reply January 29, 2019 Robert Franzen That’s what I thought:- Reply January 30, 2019 Nora Neel-Toney How can a born again true Christian have a demon unless they turn away from God. The devil and God does not abide in the same house. Reply January 30, 2019 Troy Day Can a Christian backslide and then have a demon? Reply January 30, 2019 Steve Losee Th whole “oppressed/possessed” controversy is based on a mistranslation. You asked the question properly, and the answer is “yes”. Reply January 30, 2019 Troy Day “oppressed/possessed” is not in the Bible – demonized is – AND it refers to people who were under covenant with GOD Reply January 31, 2019 Isara Mo I have never met one WITHOUT a demon Reply January 31, 2019 Isara Mo Do Christians sin? Reply January 31, 2019 Kenneth W Phelps The Book Of James Tells Us That If We Tell GOD that We Sin Not We Are Liars Reply January 31, 2019 Isara Mo Kenneth W Phelps What causes sin? Reply January 31, 2019 Isara Mo Kenneth W Phelps Before the fall Adam.and Eve didn’t know what we call sin…until Satan.came on the scene…and initiated the sin syndrome…and death. People try to come up with whacky ideas of ” flesh”…flesh….to explain the demonic…but is that ” sound doctrine”? Reply January 31, 2019 Kenneth W Phelps Disobediance to GOD We Have A Warring Nature In Side Us The Old Man Which Is Sin And he Is Always Being Tempted Some Times We Give In for we are unable to give him up but we do learn to say no for JESUS Was Tempted And He Said No to Sin so We should do Also But We Are Weak of fleash but thank GOD For GRACE Reply January 31, 2019 Isara Mo Kenneth W Phelps Brother Kenneth Jesus nature was a sinless nature, a godly nature and logically it is impossible for God to sin whether in body or out of body for God cannot sin. I see an incident of temptation of Jesus just once, and until He was crucified He had no sin and didn’t commit any sin because of divine nature : He had no ” old man nature” in Him , He no warring nature in Him….to kind of ” drive him” or propel.him to ” sin” My point is this…Jesus did not have any demon in Him, His nature wouldn’t house any but as long as one has the ” sin nature” demonic oppression , captivity is imminent…There is more to temptation than our ” flesh” or” old man” There are billions of people in the world who have not heard or accepted the gospel of Jesus and yet know that to kill, steal or destroy is sinful and, even without grace, have known how to NOT TO SIN… Reply January 31, 2019 Isara Mo Why do they sin while their sins have been paid for? Reply January 31, 2019 Troy Day Isara Mo after reading your position is unclear. What do you believe about believers having demons and being delivered? Reply January 31, 2019 Isara Mo Troy Day My position is very clear: all Christians need deliverance…ALL When you see people who are born again(saved) and yet are in great oppression it won’t help much preaching to them…they all need their demons cast out… Fallacious teachings that Christians can’t have a demon is very detrimental to believers. I had a attended a An Evangelical Church of a pastor friend for three or four years.When I first arrived there I wanted to know their doctrinal stand on deliverance…and he (a person with 2 degrees in theology) bluntly told me that their denomination didn’t believe that ” a believer” could have demons..I told him his church was not the kind of church I needed to worship but he allowed me to hold to my “skewed doctrines” and minister in their church.. Well guess what, believers had so many demons….and if I look back at the instances of ” deliverance” made, the more I become angry at people like Troy who condone a palliative gospel….that once you get saved your malaria parasites depart…. I have ministered almost in ” Pentecostal churches” and I have not found one where there was no demon… I have not set my foot in a Catholic Church or a Lutheran Church or Seventh Adventist….the lot with ” sound doctrine” but if demons are found in Pentecostal churches what about “these”…. Troy that is my position: is it unclear? Reply January 31, 2019 Troy Day all Christians need deliverance still does not answer my question YOU actually just made things more complicated 🙂 Reply January 31, 2019 Isara Mo Troy Day What question? Reply January 31, 2019 Troy Day What do you believe about believers having demons and being delivered? Reply January 31, 2019 Bishop Bernie L Wade Explain what you are asking. Reply January 31, 2019 Isara Mo Bishop Bernie L Wade Thanks Bishop. Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich Influenced, yes; possessed, no Reply February 1, 2019 Troy Day the BIBLE makes NO such difference – it simply calls them demonized … Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich Troy Day, where does the Bible call them/ believers demonized? Reply February 1, 2019 Troy Day Every where where LXX and NT speaks about Jewish believers who were under covenant with GOD and were still demonized Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich NO. You can’t mix covenants. Two different results. Reply February 1, 2019 Troy Day Really? Who did Jesus ministered to? Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich Show me a NT passage where an actual believer is said to be demonized. Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich You can’t Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich Prove ur point by evidence. U can’t Reply February 1, 2019 Troy Day Revelation 2:20 But I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and by her teaching deceives my servants to commit sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich Your first mistake is how you look at the New testament. it is written to the professing or visible Church. There are believers in there and also unbelievers. That verse doesn’t say they r demonized but they lack a biblical standard to judge by. Reply February 1, 2019 Troy Day Really? What mistake – I just cited Rev 2:20 It plainly calls a believer in the church Jezebel – deal with that Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich Doesn’t prove ur point. Mistake…like most Christians they narrowly see the NT written to believers only. That is theistake. Reply February 1, 2019 Troy Day Revelation 2:20 proves a woman in church was demonized and tolerated by the pastor/angel Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich Yes, a woman in the professing-visible church. Doesn’t say she was a born again believer. We have that situation today in the “professing” church. Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich there is a mixed bag of believers and non-believers who are professing to be believers which really aren’t in the visible church today Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich See the parable of the sower Reply February 1, 2019 Steve Celich Heb. 3-5 brings up that we have the same situation in the OT visible Jewish community as in the NT visible church. Mixed bag…believers and those who profess to believe but really don’t. That’s why the admonition in that context to take the full step and beleieve Reply February 1, 2019 Troy Day The purpose of the Bible is not to inform us about all that ever was or ever will be; otherwise we would have a multi-volume Bible larger than the largest of encyclopaedias. The purpose of the Bible is to tell us what G-d has provided for us in this life. So the Bible tells us almost nothing about the pre-Adamic period and very little about the post-millennial time period. It may be acceptable for people to speculate about these matters, as long as it is understood to be merely speculation and not to be considered truth. However, such speculation is never profitable to our faith or our ability to obey the purposes of G-d in our lives. Genesis 1.2 contains a very important statement. “And darkness was on the face of the deep”. G-d had existed from eternity prior to this point and what we read about in Genesis chapter one was not His first work. But Genesis chapter one tells us nothing about the eternal pre-existent works of G-d. We cannot say that G-d existed eternally but never did anything until the moment that He created the heavens and the earth. G-d is not a G-d of eternal passivity. To put it more bluntly, G-d has existed for untold billions of years and He did not spend all of prehistory doing nothing, but we are not told what He did do. We are told that darkness was on the face of the deep, but darkness is not a substance; it is not something, darkness is in fact the lack of something. Darkness is the lack of light. Darkness actually has no power (although Christians often think that darkness is a rival power to light). Conversely, light is a substance and is powerful in its own right. This is true Biblically and scientifically. As an example: if the ionosphere were to be covered with some form of a thick blanket so as to exclude any light from reaching the earth, and if all light sources on the earth were extinguished, then we could say that a “darkness covered the earth”. If you then were to go to the end of the fishing pier at the beach and light a single candle, the light from that candle would be visible all the way to the horizon. Only an obstructed view of the end of the fishing pier would limit the visibility of the light. The light of one candle has more power than all the darkness, because darkness is not a substance, but the lack of light. The very fact that Genesis chapter one says that darkness covered the earth means that something was acting as a blanket over the earth at that time. It could be safely said that G-d had not existed in darkness prior to that moment, because where G-d is there is light. Yet the Bible tells us almost nothing about this time period, even though that time period is much longer than the time period that stretches from the creation of Adam until the end of this age. Now we have an interesting fact. What we think of as the supernatural world existed prior to Genesis one, but we are not told when G-d created this supernatural world, nor are we told when He created the world we live in now. In Genesis 1.1 the heavens and the earth are portrayed as being pre-existent; then at some point in His eternal existence G-d covered the earth with a blanket and darkness fell on the surface of the earth. Starting from Genesis the chronology of the Bible seems to trace a period of about 6,000 years. But we know that the earth is much older than 6,000 years and that the light we see coming from the stars has been travelling to us for at least tens of thousands of years. So these elements were not created six thousand years ago. But because the creation of the earth and the creation of the other heavenly bodies are not relevant to our salvation, the Bible does not comment on their history. We can speculate that the evil spirits are the disembodied spirits of beings from a pre-Adamic time period. But we can only speculate about that. The theological assumption is that at some point before the creation of Adam the angel Lucifer rebelled against G-d and took with him 1/3 of the seraphim and these spirits from the pre-Adamic creation. Then in Genesis 1.2 we find the words tohu v bohu, 11 which indicate that a judgement came upon this pre-Adamic race; after which G-d started a new creation with Adam. But spirits exist eternally. In fact a spirit could be likened to an algebraic mathematical ray. A ray has a starting point, which is the time when it is created, but it has no end point. This is in contrast to G-d, who in algebraic mathematical terms is a line. In algebraic terms a line has neither a starting point nor an ending point. A line continues forever in the past and forever in the future. Since these rebellious (i.e. evil) spirits of a pre-Adamic creation are deathless, they have continued to exist into our time period, seeking physical bodies to inhabit. The reason they seek to occupy bodies is because these beings are very limited in their completely spiritual state. Creation is incomplete without a physical state. We tend to think of the physical world negatively, and the spiritual realm as being more important. But in fact the Bible tells us that in the future G-d will live forever with us in the physical realm, after He has created the new heaven and the new earth. 1 Reply February 1, 2019 Jon Ruthven Well, as a friend of mine would say, “Let’s see, I was married for 23 years . . . .” Reply February 6, 2019 Troy Day You area exactly right Rico Hero can a Christian be bewitched.? Gal 3:1-3… Jezebel and witchcraft.. worked on the Galatians yap – I have pointed to this before many many times BTW time we start praying against the queen of the sea Reply February 7, 2019 Brian James People can be tempted and demons are all around us causing temptation. But No a true Holy Ghost filled Christian can not be possessed by a demon. Reply February 7, 2019 Troy Day People can be tempted to post on FB during church Reply February 7, 2019 Brian James Troy Day again who posted during church Reply February 7, 2019 Troy Day lots of people do – its a shame if you ask me Leave a Reply Click here to cancel reply. Cancel reply Comment Name Email Website This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.