A fresh (and eye witness) look at the “Kansas City…

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A fresh (and eye witness) look at the “Kansas City Prophets.” I was an eye witness to the mess

John Kissinger [01/10/2016 8:49 AM]
“… The experience of the Corinthian church gives evidence that abuse and misuse can creep into the operation of the gifts of the Spirit if the vessel is not wholly submissive to the guidance and control of the Holy Spirit. That is why Paul said the message of the prophet spoken in the New Testament church should be judged by all who were hearing the message. The judging most likely was to ask how the prophecy conformed to the whole of Scripture…”

Source: http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/topics/sptlissues_prophets_prophecies.cfm

John Kissinger [01/11/2016 10:17 AM]
an even fresher 2016 look at Kansas city iHOP reveals that its eschatology has moved toward kingdom-now eschatology. #iHOP and its post-millennial shift toward Dominion kingdom-now theology and NAR’s twist on the traditional charismatic teaching. This video from GOD TVshows Wes Hall–a leader in the International House of Prayer (IHOP) in Kansas City, Missouri–teaching that the reason to pray for Israel is because it is God’s strategy for releasing “breakthrough” to cities and nations (that is, bringing God’s physical kingdom to earth), if#iHOP is part of NAR they sure are Kingdom NOW theology believers

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 10:26 AM]
What is your deal with “NAR?” You always are blasting it for something.

John Kissinger [01/11/2016 10:28 AM]
I was reading in a forum by former #IHOP members talking about Mike Bickle and International House of Prayer saying: “They are part of the Kingdom Now movement, which basically teaches that either 1) the Book of Revelation has already occurred and the Kingdom of God is currently being perfected by today’s believers or 2) the Book of Revelation is totally symbolic.” http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?58924-Mike-Bickle-and-International-House-of-Prayer

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 10:30 AM]
Not at all what Mike believes. He is post-trib.

John Kissinger [01/11/2016 10:35 AM]
So are you saying that Dr. Michael Brown is wrong that Mike Bickle of IHOP and Lou Engle of TheCall are part of NAR ? What exactly is your claim? http://apprising.org/2014/01/14/dr-michael-brown-says-friends-mike-bickle-and-lou-engle-true-men-of-god/

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 10:41 AM]
Nowhere did Mike say anything about NAR as you call it. You are making a big deal out of nothing.

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 10:42 AM]
Brown is probably more Apostolic movement than Bickle is to be honest.

John Kissinger [01/11/2016 10:43 AM]
you may be right, but are former member of iHOPE wrong when they claim iHOPE moved toward kingdom-now theology? https://web.archive.org/web/20151217173233/http://www.pitch.com/FastPitch/archives/2015/03/12/former-ihop-member-explains-why-he-left-the-church

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 10:44 AM]
I notice you find all the anti articles. I was there from day one.

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 10:47 AM]
I do not think they understand Kingdom Now and what it is and isnt.

John Kissinger [01/11/2016 11:24 AM]
I am currently interested in the THEOLOGICAL SHIFT Assemblies of God, IHOP and others are making toward NAR. Hence the reasoning polling you as a direct witness. These other witnesses were also there from day 1 and seems like along after you left. Are you saying they are dead wrong on the eschatological shift of IHOP? This is also a direct collective quote from multiple similar sources about IHOP:

“IHOP officially holds to evangelical post tribulation and affirms historical premillennialism. They also hold to the teachings of the New Apostolic Reformation which is part of the Manifested Sons of God theology which came out of the Latter Rain Movement. This theology teaches that it is the Christian’s responsibility to take back society in order that Jesus Christ may return to set up His kingdom here on earth. This is also known as a 7 Mountain mandate or Kingdom now theology.”

Is it your position that telling me all these testimonies from IHOP are wrong?

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 11:27 AM]
Why not go to their website and not on these anti-Pentecostal websiteS?

John Kissinger [01/11/2016 12:16 PM]
We already discussed the eschatology paper they published by IHOP – I recently listened to a series of recorded messages from a conference featuring several prominent teachers associated with the IHOP ministry. The conference discussed Israel, her current status in th world and her place in the prophetic end-time scenario. IHOP from the Kansas city International House of Prayer is one of a growing numbers of Christian associations who teach that the church will be the instrument God uses to bring forth the kingdom of God upon the earth. This teaching fall into the category called the “Kingdom Now” doctrine. – Posted here are testimonies of ex-members who are testifying of IHOP’s move toward kingdom-now theology

Ryan Miller [01/11/2016 1:11 PM]
I thought that was Mt . 28 doctrine-the Great Commission? Oh, I forgot, we are back in the 1950’s. Get them saved and leave them sit in a pew until the end of the world. 😉

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 1:12 PM]

Ryan Miller [01/11/2016 1:13 PM]
Tack Mk. 16 on there too. Or are we cutting that put “since it is not in the earliest manuscripts?” If people change, culture changes. It can take JUST one person to change a workplace-positive or negative.

John Kissinger [01/11/2016 1:18 PM]
Peter A Vandever the statement you posted is from May 16, 1993 or 23 years ago. You yourself have said that IHOP eschatology has changed since then. The witnesses sited above agree in the proposed in the joint NAR / Kingdom-now shift. Why dont you agree with their testimonies ?

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 1:23 PM]
Read down.

John Kissinger [01/11/2016 1:24 PM]
read the whole thing – what more specifically? 1993 is irrelevant for what I am asking you about?

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 1:27 PM]
The Kingdom Now position is current.

John Kissinger [01/11/2016 1:28 PM]
If that is really true (which we have multiple eye witnesses saying it’s not), your comment that IHOP belongs to NAR is simply not true. NAR’s foundation, especially since announcing the new apostolic age in 2001, is the Kingdom-now-theology BTW would you give at least one source that the IHOP Kingdom Now position is current? Miller What’s your point?

Peter A Vandever [01/11/2016 1:49 PM]
They believe in the Apostolic, not Kingdom Now…. what is your deal with the Apostolic movement?

John Kissinger [01/13/2016 8:13 AM]
NAR is ALL about Kingdom-now – NO way around it! C Peter Wagner denies the rapture of the church. So do Mike Bickle and the IHOPchurch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEqAJpVy8Jw


  • Troy Day
    Reply August 27, 2018

    Troy Day

    Were the KANSAS 4 the last of the prophetic movement close to AG??? which BTW Resolution 16 fully halted Peter Vandever Terry Wiles I fail to recognize Bob Jones as a modern day prophet. The Vineyard shepherds were close but too much in deliverance and discernment to operate in the prophetic Rick Joyner lost his weight with the Bentley scandal and from there off the whole Florida revival thing was just preaching no miracles or prophecies Virtually no supernatural

    What else is left for the church in America except to move in the natural and in the flesh anymore? Thank you #res16 http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/rick-joyners-response-to-lee-gradys-the-tragic-scandal/

  • Troy Day
    Reply February 21, 2019

    Troy Day

    Philip Williams I believe it was Peter Vandever who proposed this OP Bob Jones was then living in Statesville before that I believe or close by What brought all these Prophets to Kansas? Was it iHOP? We saw them going south toward NAR pretty soon afterwords http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/mike-bickle-of-ihop-just-endorsed-ted-cruz/

  • Troy Day
    Reply August 30, 2019

    Troy Day

    here is the resent on Kansas Joshua Peter Phillips and the prophets mentioned by Philip Williams though I would not call it eye witness as the author claims for various personal reasons

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